Podcast Transcriptions

NICO: Bienvenidos y welcome a todos, to Siéntate y Hablemos; I guess the new installment of Siéntate y Hablemos. We’re back, we’re better than ever! You got Nico Gaspar,

VALEN: You got Valentina Echavarria,

NICO:  And we will be your gracious hosts for this podcast!

VALEN: Woo!

NICO: Coming up once a month.

VALEN: Once a month, we are gonna be here talking about some hard topics, some light topics, some funny topics: anything and everything hispanic and latinx. So, tune in each month to hear us talk about these awesome topics, and learn a little more!

NICO: Yeah, and we wanna make this, you know, a place where people can learn, a place where they can start a discussion, somewhere where, you know- maybe you get something out of this every month. So, um, yeah, welcome! And to that, this is our first week, our first topic. Our first topic is gonna be Femicides in Latinamerica and America- or, I guess, The United States. So, we are gonna be thinking internationally and focusing on The United States and Latin America, and really kinda boiling that down.

VALEN: Right! And for that topic, we have our fantastic researcher, Sarah Escorcia! Welcome!

SARAH: Hi everyone, I’m very excited to be here. Thank you for having me on the podcast!

VALEN: We are very excited! Thanks to you for doing all this amazing research and bringing us all these statistics for this very very important topic.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Also, we want to preface this by saying that we do have a trigger warning. This might be a very heavy topic for a lot of people, so if you don’t feel comfortable with this topic, you are more than welcome to join us next month. Umm.. and yeah!

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Take care of yourselves! I hope this semester is going really well!

NICO: Absolutely Going off to a good start, we’re almost halfway through- I mean, we’re halfway through

VALEN: We’re halfway through!

NICO: We’re- that’s actually- ok… yeah…

VALEN: Alright, well… let’s get into it!

NICO: Yeah, we ready?

VALEN: Yeah! Ready?

SARAH: Yes!

VALEN: Awesome!

NICO: Dale.

[INTRO MUSIC PLAYS]

NICO: Victoria Salazar

SARAH: Monica Linda

VALEN: Julie Sanchez Coca

NICO: Wendy Paloma

SARAH: Patricia Medina

SARAH: All of these women are victims of femicide. But what exactly is femicide? So, according to the world health organization, they define it is violence against women comprised of a wide range of acts from verbal harassment to other forms of emotional abuse, to daily physical, or sexual abuse. At the far end of that spectrum, you have femicides; the murder of a woman. And all the women´s names we listed above have all been women who have been murdered based on their gender.

NICO: Yeah. And I think it’s really important to think like…kinda preface on like, how we started this podcast right? How did we start this podcast? I guess, when we first started, is we asked three researchers like “hey, what–whaddya wanna do?” right? And we asked you Sarah, we were like “what–what do you want to do?” And immediately her face lit up. Like she knew exactly where she was going and we didn’t even have to tell her. Like, we´ve had meetings, she’s been killing it…and so why, why was, why is this topic so important to you and why do you think this, this conversation is something that needs to be had?

SARAH: For me personally, I think it’s a really really important topic to talk about because…So, apart from being involved in El Centro, I also am a student assistant pace worker for the Women Gender and Sexuality Studies Chair, and she is…The professor that I work under, she has really opened my eyes to a lot of issues going on in our world regarding, um, women’s rights, lgbtqia rights, and etc. right? And so, one of the things, the first things that I learned coming onto campus was the idea of femicides, right? It was like–and I was asking myself–never heard of this– like “what is this?” right? And, um, as I kept doing research and research, like, I found out more about it and just hearing about people’s stories was absolutely insane.

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: Um…

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: I think that a lot of times, like, in the news there’s not enough coverage of women who suffer from domestic violence, sexual assault, rape, etc.,  and you know, femicides as well.  And it gets really extreme, to like murder…

NICO: Hm

SARAH: I also think that the statistics that are out there, like, tend to be really inaccurate when it comes to people of color or minority women right?

NICO: Mhmm

SARAH:  Also, um, lots of times, statistics tend to get lost in society, right?

NICO: Yeah

SARAH: You tend to look at the numbers and think “Oh! That’s not that bad in the grand scheme of things”, right? But we need to remind ourselves that at the end of the day, like, the numbers…behind those numbers there’s faces, there’s names, there’s individuals who were mothers…who were mothers, um, daughters, sisters, etc. etc… right? And those women have stories.

NICO: Right.

SARAH: Right, and regardless if, if, you know, if they were murdered, they… What happened to them does not define them.

NICO: No.

SARAH: But you know, like, as someone who’s really really passionate about this, like, I hope that one day we get to the point where I don’t have friends who come up to me but from, uh, with cases of sexual assault right? I hope that one day, like, we can strive to be a better society and I feel like, by doing that we have to all take a step forward, as to talk about topics like these that are difficult. They are right? And we have to take care of ourselves but… It’s a way that we can kind of hold each other accountable and kind of spread the word of, like, “This is what happens.” “This is what we can do to prevent that from happening.” and “Why does this thing happen?” right?

VALEN: Right! Um, and you mentioned, Sarah, um, you… this was the first time you heard about– coming into campus was the first time that you heard about femicides. Um, why do you think this is? Is this, like, a word that is not very thrown around or it’s just a topic that’s not being talked about enough? As you said before. How does this– how do you think this affects the talk around femicides? The–this lack of like, knowledge of the word?

SARAH: Yeah so, like, um… In Latin America, so, you have certain countries, um, that have the term “femicides”, like, put into their legislation, right? For example, Guat– Guatemala, like, already, like, has, like a,  legislation piece put out that– they address specifically, like, women, um, who are femicides and women who are assaulted and etc.  And then, um, finding a way to, to kind of –um– hold accountable the perpetrators, and, etc.

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: Um, but in the United States you don’t really see that. Like, what you see is– I feel like, the research for me, like, the hard– one of the hardest parts was, like, finding stuff in the United States because we have it under domestic violence. And, um, for like femicides you’d have to look at domestic violence. Homicides. Right? And that’s when you can find statistics and, like, names and etc. The difference though is that there’s different types of femicides, right? So, you have: intimate, non-intimate, dowry related, and honor killings. So depending on the region that you’re in, um, what type of religion you practice, the culture that you’re part of, like it, it really–that–that’s when the numbers start to, like, go up and down. So if you are in, like, the Middle East, Asia, Europe, you tend to see more honor killings and dowry related, um, types of femicides. If you’re on the Western Hemisphere, so like Latin America, United States, you tend to see more intimate and non-intimate femicides. Um, so, just like, a quick, so–

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: –non-intimate would be, like, not your partner. Someone that you don’t really know. Intimate would be, like, within your, like, a partner relationship or someone in your house.

NICO: Hmm.

VALEN: Right.

SARAH: But back to the domestic violence. Like, domestic violence would only be someone that you are–had to be married to and lived with, right? So that’s more like–

NICO: There’s too much of, like, a blanket term for people, yeah.

SARAH: Exactly. So if you…If there was a woman who was murdered, that, from– or assaulted– from an individual that is not their partner, that number would not get counted in that statistic, right? So that’s, like, the blurred line between, you know what we count as femicides and domestic violence. And then, for me growing up, like, you know, I’d heard of domestic violence, of course. But you tend to think that it only happens, like, at home but that’s not the reality of it all, right? And it’s just…(it) Skews with the statistics and what we deem as…as femicides within– in the United States, since in the United States, like, we don’t really use that term.

NICO: Yeah. And so, like, what– what were some of those numbers that you found for the United States comparatively to Latin America? Like, how– what– cause, cause it was hard to find those numbers, like, what– what were those numbers that you did find?

SARAH: Yeah, so, um… Well, in 2020, like, at least 4,091 femicides occurred in Latin America. And then for the United States I tend to focus more on North Carolina, since we are currently in North Carolina. Um, so, what I found is in 2021 there were 63 intimate domestic violence homicides in North Carolina, in 2020 there were 61 homicides from domestic violence, and in  2019 there was 57,  2018 53. Um, which–

NICO: But that’s insane. Like, that’s insane, yo. That’s… We’re talking about one state right?

SARAH: Mhmm.

NICO: And we’re hitting over 50s in almost every single category in one year, right? We’re  thinking about every week–every year, right? How many weeks have we got? In a year we got 52. You know?

SARAH: Yeah exactly.

VALEN: And this, like, it also seems like it’s going up. The rate is going up. Um, we started with 53 in 2018 as you said, and then 63 in 2021. It’s alarming.

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: Well, it also has to do with the pandemic, right?

NICO: Right, that’s what I’m saying. Couples are around each other all the time now.

SARAH: Exactly. So like, when you’re locked in with a significant other or whoever-it-is, like, um, and you already have, like, an unsafe and unstable relationship–

VALEN: Right.

SARAH: –that obviously can get heightened when you’re locked in behind doors–

NICO: Mhmmm

SARAH: –and having to have stayed home because of isolation.

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: Because of quarantine, sorry. So, yeah…

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: Also, like, um, according to the Washington Post, in 2018, like, half the women in the  last decade were killed by a former or intimate partner, um, so that’s kind of–

NICO: Gotta take care–

SARAH: –crazy.

NICO: –of your women. Goodness.

SARAH: Yes! And then also, like, from there, like, differs right? So, um, I think the biggest disparity, like, when you look at domestic violence cases, like, in the United States is… Um, but for example, like, one of the articles that I found, like, talks about, like, how… For example Native Americans–like, we all know, it’s a known fact now. If you don’t know, go read a book–. Um, Native Americans have been treated so badly by the US government. And, um, they still do to this day, so their trust in the government and trust in the police is very, very low. So what does this mean? What this means is that their rates to go and report, um, sexual asault, domestic violence, rape, etc. etc.,  like even murder , are so low because of that, like, mistrust within the government  because of past things done to them. But then the Lantix community, and, um,  Black and African American community, and etc., like, you see, like, the same kind of things. Like, right? Um, of that fear of, like,  going to a police officer, going to someone who works with the government and asking for help because of just stuff you see in the news, right?

NICO: Right.

SARAH: Of that fear of, like, what’s gonna happen? And especially if you have, um–

VALEN: If you´re undocumented.

SARAH: Yes. If you are undocumented thats when things are, like, extra scary of, like, “Who do I go to if my partners being violent?”, right?

NICO & VALEN: Right.

SARAH: You´re told not to go to the police because you’re scared of deportation, right?

NICO: Right.

SARAH: And…and its abs– and that’s what also messes up with the statistics, is, like… Yeah, like…Some people say like “oh, like the numbers aren’t that high”, but these are just the ones reported.

NICO: I’m saying, yeah…

SARAH: And, so, you–how– you can’t even imagine how many more cases there are out there that are just not reported. Same goes with Latin America, right? Um, you… 4,091 in all Latin America in 2020 but… who knows, like, how many more cases there are that have not just–have not been reported?

NICO: Right

SARAH: Um. So, yeah.

NICO: And–and–  So, what–what are we seeing because I look back in the U.S. and I don’t- I mean to be honest with you, I think I’ve learned this word in the last like two three four months, to be honest with you like- and that might be my own like- my own, you know… ability to not get- not- I wasn’t, you know, knowledgeable about it or whatever, but- you know, why do you think that- I mean- in the U.S. it’s really not that that that talked about, you know? But in Latin America they have full legislation in some countries, like, with this word and so like- what are we seeing in Latin America that is pushing, you know, that legislation to get past… you know, and what is what is pushing what is pushing this this this um…?

VALEN: The knowledge of this word.

NICO: Yeah, yeah, like… yeah.

VALEN: I feel like in, in Latin America it’s definitely more um- visible… This word is more heard of- uh- you hear it in the news often, you hear it in your classrooms, you hear it everywhere um so yeah like tell us a little bit about that.

SARAH: Um yeah so I think, like, it has to do with the way society thinks of things right? So, um, for example, like, in Latin America you have the Ni Una Menos movement going on. Um, you had–that started in Argentina but then grew to like, other like, Latin American countries,  but essentially like i feel like it’s because of the women who have literally stood up and said no more.

NICO: Right.

SARAH: The marches that come from when, um, women are just brutally murdered and how they’re just done. For example Ingrid Escamilla, like, the first woman’s name that we mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, like, she was murdered in Mexico and as she was murdered, um, there was a protest following her murder and lots of women came out and said, like, that we’ve had it. Like, something needs to be done, right? This is not okay. Like, we need to, to change things. And in other countries in Latin America, protests have, like, broken out and women have come out and been like “We’re tired. We’re done. We need something to end this.” Um, also just like–

NICO/VALEN: Right. Yes.

SARAH: – in the United States, like, the way it’s conceptualized it’s like… it’s conceptualized in completely different ways. Um, so like, if you look at the Me Too movement like, where our–we don’t really look at, um, the far extremes like femicides when women are murdered. Like, we tend to just, like, focus on, like, uh, sexual assault and rape.

NICO/VALEN: Right.

SARAH: Um, but we don’t really add– like, act, we don’t really add that part of, like, murder, like, right now in the United States even though it should be added it’s just, like, not added in the conversation, um, right now. And, like, there is a push going on in the United States, like, there are, like, protests and there have been fights about it but it’s not as heavy as it has been in Latin America. Like, the Latin American push, like, from women is absolutely, like, it’s empowering and it’s– it’s really really, like, amazing to see, like, them being able to push forward that. And I hope that one day the United States will be able to do that. But also, you know, the pandemic did set us back a little bit–

NICO/VALEN: Right.

SARAH: –just because of quarantine.

VALEN: And not only the pandemic, but it’s way more difficult to get out into the streets and protest when you are, also, as well, like, undocumented or you have work, you have to keep up with your family… it’s a very different reality, uh, in which women are living in the United States especially like Latine– Latina women and, um, uh, indigenous women as well. Um, so it–it is very understandable that those huge protests are not happening in the lLatinx community here in the US.

NICO: Oh, I was just, you know, and also, like, kind of like, along that, like, I guess when–when you were talking about Latin America and, you know, um, how it’s so big in Latin America or like, how it’s become and it’s, at least in certain countries, it’s become a pretty big deal. Um, like, what– what has your experience been with that Valentina? Because for me at least, in the United States, like, I didn’t learn about femicide and I just said it, like, couple months ago. You know, like, how–how is it treated where…where..? You know…

VALEN: Right. So, the word is definitely more prevalent in Latin America, at least in Colombia… Uh, and within the cities, um, you do see it a lot in the news and socially talking to people…  However it’s not very common to see it in school as an educational–

NICO: Hmmm.

VALEN:  –topic. It’s not really talked about in that way. It’s very, like, hush-hush in terms of schooling–of school of course. But like, in politics, in the media, in social situations it is very talked about. Especially when we see these, um, big protests that, uh, cause a huge commotion across the entirety of Latin America really…Because it has been a while since there has been a big one in Colombia, or at least in my city, in Medellín.  But we hear and we see pictures and we see videos from women from Mexico to Argentina talking about this topic and, uh, with these amazing songs and everything that they make too, yeah.

SARAH: Yeah, I think you also touched on a really important thing of the media. Um, the media, like, really has a huge play in this, right? And they sometimes tend to highlight certain individuals and exclude others from the news, right? So like, you mentioned, like, indigenous women and women of color, like, you don’t see them and their stories heard in the news as much as white me–white women, unfortunately.

VALEN: Yeah, and talking about media, do you think media helps or media is detrimental to this topic? Um, or is there any way that we can help? That our listeners can help as individuals or as– as students, as faculty or staff, in order to, um, you know, help the cause and keep the conversation going?

SARAH: Yeah I mean addressing the first part of your question about the media, I do believe that the media is a really really important resource, right? I mean, a lot of people watch the news, a lot of people go on instagram, social media now… Like, a lot of people around the world are more connected because of advanced technology and communication etc. etc… But I will say, like, the media sometimes tends to, um, misrepresent the Latin American community, right? And I think that’s, like, well known and it’s really really unfortunate because, like, doing my research, like, I ran across, like, a few sources that were just saying, like,  Latin America is the deadliest country– sorry– the world’s deadliest region…

NICO: No, that’s exactly what I was looking at too.

SARAH: Yeah and like, there was one video that, like, said that Latin America is the most deadly, um, region and like–

VALEN: Oh my god.

SARAH: –strictly only focused on one Central American country.

NICO/VALEN: (gasps)

SARAH: So not only are you generalizing all Latin America on one country, but you’re also depicting that one country so, so poorly…

NICO: Yeah. I just saw that on, by, I literally just, I literally just saw a Vice Youtube video that was like…

SARAH: Yes!

NICO: “Deadliest country in Latin America for women” or something like that.

SARAH: Exactly.

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH:  And I mean, I watched the video and you know, like, it might– it talks about, like…It  interviewed one of the dads of a victim and, and he, you know, obviously it’s really really sad that what happened… And then it went into talking about, um, how these group of women, like, were kind of conducting these investigations because they were lacking support from the government etc. etc… But like, the issue is that, like… The way you spin it, right?

NICO: Right.

SARAH: You know, we are Latinx, like, we are Latinos, like,  we understand that that is not the reality of it, right?

VALEN: Right.

SARAH:  But someone who’s coming out f– outside of our community and looking at those videos is quickly going to pick up on that stereotype of “Uh, it’s not that safe.”–

NICO:  Right.

SARAH: –oh and just generalize. And I think that that is the–the– this bad side of media, right? When it’s–when you generalize and when you false advertise things. Um, it’s really bad. But also another point in the media is that a lot of times the media tends to slowly focus on certain groups. Um, and misrepresent others, right? So for example indigenous women, for example women of color…when they go–when femicides happen to them, sexual assault cases happen to them– they don’t get as much coverage, um, compared to others, you know? And, and I think that, yes it’s great that white women are getting the coverage they need when they are missing or when they are murdered, but we need to promote that all women, regardless of your race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

NICO: Lo que sea.

SARAH: Lo que sea y lo que sea you get the media coverage! Like, as much as anyone because…  Also that goes back to, like, representation, right? And, and spreading the word as to, like, just, uh, inform and tell that this happens to everyone.

NICO: Mhmm.

VALEN:  Right. This was, um, also taking into account–we also mean to include trans women.

SARAH: Exactly.

VALEN: People, uh, who don’t identify with the binary gender of these communities are very underrepresented in this topic and it’s very difficult to find any statistics about it, as you’ve told us before, since the topic has had a history of being very binary based. But it is important to start moving the conversation in that aspect as well.

SARAH: Yeah, and I feel like, as we progress as a society to move forward and become more progressive that– hopefully– that those numbers will begin to appear and, um, you know, other communities and cultures will be able to open up more about that aspect as well. Um, I didn’t answer the second part of your question that’s like what we can do. So, I feel like what we can do, probably the most cliche thing I could ever say, but it’s– get informed.

NICO/VALEN: Right.

SARAH:  It’s, stay educated. It’s watching the news. It’s not watching the first page of the news but keep–keep digging because unfortunately like I said before, like, the media just likes to hide specific things so… You know, keep getting informed, um… You know, take classes that, like, kind of test you and open your mind and everything. Also like, you know, if you really really want to get involved, you know, you can look up, like, grassroots, just like, organizations that work specifically with victims, um,  supporting victims families –of those who have been murdered –and, um, just kind of promote a different…A better light of things and kind of just wanting to find a solution to this terrible issue.  Also, um, I feel like one of the causes of femicides and sexual assault  and etc. is gender roles. Um, and that although we might not realize, like, we play a huge role in our day-to-day lives, right? Of… if we generalize a population, if we don’t, if– how we talk about each other, our conversations, being respectful to each other, each other… So, I definitely do feel like it’s beginning to break those gender norms and beginning to accept others for who they are and not, um, pushing those generals on others because a lot of domestic violence cases are because of, low socioeconomic status sometimes, but also because of, um, that need for a certain individual to feel–

NICO: –powerful, respected…

SARAH: Strong. Powerful

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: And of wanting the other one to feel more submissive and… or one individual wanting to work when the other one doesn’t want them to work.

NICO: Yeah. and that’s, and that’s– but that also comes down to the men, you know? And a lot of times, at least when I saw this, a lot of the things, a lot of the issues that I saw was with the men in the way that their attitudes were towards women, you know? It’s not… I  don’t know where we got this but– I guess I do know where we got this history HEH–but we have this, like, perception that, that men…  We need to be the providers, we need to take care of women, and we need–I  mean, we DO. We need to take care of women, we need to do this– but we need to actually take care of them. We don’t need to show our power over them, you know?  Like, that’s like…  I feel like it’s some sort of, like, power trip or something that we got. I don’t know what it is exactly because…  my–I try not– I try to, I try to stay away from, from, from those types of behaviors because– I guess my mamma raised me different– but there’s no way that, you know, you should put your hands on a woman, you know? As a–as a man right now, like, never. For no reason, you know? And just the way that you should carry yourself in this world because you have that power anyway. You know, societally, you have that power as a man, you know? So you don’t need to show it, you know? The most powerful thing that you can do is not show it as a man because in society inherently you have that. Especially, like, people of privilege, like, you have so much. You have so much power over other people and you don’t need to show that. You don’t need to push that onto other people and, a-and, and you don’t need to hurt nobody. Like, there’s no point in hurting anybody I don’t think, you know? Solve it with words instead of, instead of with actions–and sometimes, sometimes words do speak louder than actions, right?

VALEN: Yeah. And with nice words preferably…

NICO: Even, uh,  even if they’re ugly, even if they’re ugly words, at least, words: you’re not killing nobody.  Like, even if they’re ugly, go away. Say some ugly words and then go away from each other. Take that time away, you know? It’s always okay to step away. Always take that time to think. Because you don’t need–if you don’t need to make a split decision, don’t do it, you know? And I don’t think that in any of these situations you’re having to make a split second decision, you know? There’s a lot of things that lead up to this and there’s a lot of tells. And so, if you are in a relationship where you’re feeling those tells and you’re feeling this type of way, like, I know it’s hard, it’s very hard to communicate, but telling somebody and getting some sort of help can really, can really, you know, help you and save your life, you know? And I don’t know…

SARAH:  Yeah. I also do want to, like, add on to that. I loved what you said, um, but I also do want to say, like, you know, like, violence, sexual assault, and femicides, like, happen not only within relationships but outside of relationships.

VALEN: Right

SARAH:  And focusing more on, like, Elon and North Carolina, like, as to what we can do, like, it’s holding each other accountable. So it’s, if you know, if you’ve heard something, just like, following up with the– if it’s the victim– following up with them, seeing how they’re doing, providing resources for the victim and making–and trying to see if, if we can hold the perpetrators accountable, um, for their actions, right? Um, I think that that is one of the most important things that we can do as a society. And personally for me, I’m tired of seeing people get away with…

VALEN: Oh yeah…

SARAH:  I think it’s time that, you know, we take a step forward. And normalizing reporting, filing, um, to hold these counterparts–these perpetrators, like, responsible for their actions. I also do want to, like, reiterate or just say, like, women… yes, the numbers, like, based on the statistics, like, in North Carolina itself I think like 83 percent of women have reported that they have been sexually assaulted. But with that, that goes to say, like, 17% are men. So it doesn’t only happen to women, it happens to men as well. So it’s being conscious of that, and also just like, supporting each other and holding each other accountable. We need to be…and speaking up, right? We need to normalize reporting and we need to, to stop those things from happening.

SARAH: Yeah. Also, just like, on a more national level, just like, keep an eye out for, like,  legislation that’s coming out…

NICO:  Yeah.

SARAH: Um, you know, if you are able to vote, vote. And before voting, like, do your research on the individual and see, like, what are their perspectives on women’s rights and what are their, um, policies that they want to push out and everything like that. Um, you know, and if you aren’t able to vote you still have a voice and your voice still matters. I think it´s…

VALEN: Call your representatives…

SARAH: That is very, very, important. You know, spam that person. Um, you have the power of social media. So, making sure that you are–if you do post stories on your story or whatever it is– that you are posting from, um, proper sources and sources that aren’t, like we talked about before, generalizing or anything like that.

NICO: Consciously posting.

SARAH: Being conscious, yeah. And also, like… You know, here at Elon, like um, hold people, faculty, here at Elon responsible and accountable, um,  for actions they’ve done, or just wa– uh– things that they’re teaching, right? Um, which you know, I think we… We should all do–

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH: –as to holding each other accountable for things.

NICO: It’s those little steps that make the big– that the– make the big stride at the end type of thing, you know?

SARAH: Of course. Exactly.

NICO: That, that continual information and knowledge…

VALEN:  Yeah. And, um, we’re going to leave you all a little more information and resources on all of these topics as well. You can reach them at El Centro Elon on instagram. We have a little link tree over there and you can, um, go look at those resources… Some more information, mental health organizations within campus that can help you out if you need help… Um, and yeah. I just wanted to say a great, great thanks to Sarah for being here with us–

NICO: Absolutely

VALEN: –and for being so, so amazing and doing all this research for us. It’s a pleasure to have you here.

NICO: We also want to thank, you know, um, everybody who helped this podcast get together. Um, everybody who’s behind the scenes making all the things happen. Um, yeah. We want to thank, you know, El Centro for providing the space for us and, um…

SARAH: And thank you too. You two, Valentina and Nico, for allowing me to be on the podcast and talk about this topic. Um, yeah, I’ve had so much fun being here so thank you.

NICO: Yeah.

SARAH:  To both of you.

VALEN: Thanks to you!

NICO: Thank you for your passion, honestly, because that is…it’s contagious. It really is. So thank you so much. But we just want to tell y’all: thank y’all so much, have a great rest of your month, the next time we see y’all… Um, so yeah. Échale ganas and uh… Yeah, have a good week.

*opening music*

NICO: Bienvenidos y welcome a todos to this new episode of Siéntate y Hablemos. We have our two gracious hosts today: Me, Nico Gaspar,

VALEN: And Valentina Echavarría

NICO: And this week we’re going to be talking about Puerto Rico. And more specifically, you know, the history of Puerto Rico, where Puerto Rico is now, American relations with Puerto Rico… And for this we brought in an expert. A researcher. Someone who did a lot of the work, uh, Alanis Camacho. I will let her, um, introduce herself.

ALANIS: Hi everyone my name is Alanis Camacho Narvaez, I’m a sophomore at Elon and I’m a Puerto Rican. So yeah, let’s start this topic. Thank you, Nico, and Valentina, for inviting me.

NICO: Absolutely! Thank you so much for doing all this research, all of this work, and, and coming in to talk to us we really appreciate it.

VALEN: Yeah, thank you! And so, to get us started can you tell us a little bit of the history of Puerto Rico? Where did it start, where did all…all this commence?

NICO: Yeah, where to begin.

ALANIS: Sure! So, you know, before, you know, Cristobal Colón, we were–

VALEN: Hmm.

ALANIS: –La Isla Boriken. Um, the Taino people, which were, like, native to all the Caribbean, were the ones that lived in Boriken. Um, but then, you know, once we were colonized by Spain, we kind of stayed in their power until 1898, um, to when we transitioned to U.S power. Um, and we’ve been with the U.S. since.

NICO: And what does that relationship look like with the US now? Like, that transition from Spain to America…like, what– where, where– what’s that relationship like now with Puerto Rico and the United States?

ALANIS: Um, yeah, that transition was pretty drastic for Puerto Ricans at the time, so… We were so close to becoming a commonwealth with Spain. Um, and all of that, whe–just went down the drain when the US got involved. We had to wait, like, around 50 more years to reach that status with the United States, um, so it was definitely drastic. It was very frustrating, um, having, you know, Puerto Ricans at the time, like, protest for such a long time for a status that we would have to wait so many more decades for. And, you know, there was also language, you know? It was a big culture shock going from speaking Spanish all this time to having, like, English imposed…

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: Um, you know, and that American culture imposed on us so… Yeah, it was definitely a transition.

VALEN: Yeah… And where are we now, right now, with, with Puerto Rico? Wha–what does it look like right now?

ALANIS: Yeah, so right now we’re a commonwealth. So, to be honest, the best way I describe it is a gray area.

VALEN: Hmm

ALANIS: So, it’s this commonwealth where we have our own governm–governing um like, self-governing, um, institution. But we can’t really, like, vote for–for example– President. Um, but we are U.S citizens, but we can’t trade with other countries it’s just that, like, this gray area where, um, it’s not a colony but it’s not a state of the United States either.

VALEN: Right.

NICO: Yeah, the–the official definition, if we want to go off of that, is an independent country, or community, especially a Democratic Republic. And so it can be, like, kind of a part of like a grouping–

ALANIS: Mhmm.

NICO: –of countries kind of like the UK. Um, but in this case it’s more of like a U.S territory or colony, right?

ALANIS: So, yeah, we got that status in 1952. We did become U.S citizens way before that, in 1917. Just, you know, in time for World War I…

VALEN: Hmm!

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: Um…

VALEN: Very convenient!

ALANIS: Very convenient! Um, and then a few decades later we became, you know, a commonwealth. And, you know, this came to be because after World War II a decolonization committee opened. Um, and the U.N basically forced all countries to either annex their colonies, um, give them independence, or give them another status that wasn’t considered colonialism. And so, you know, the U.S settled for a commonwealth with us.

NICO: And so, how has…how has that been, you know? How has…how has it been to be a commonwealth of the United States?

ALANIS: Um, so I guess like, most people can think just because we’re U.S citizens, um, it’s basically the same as being a State, but not necessarily. You know especially, like, Puerto Rico having so many people of color… Like, there were a lot of issues with human rights, um, in the 20th Century, um, as we were trying to, like, get accustomed to being a part of the United States… And so… I mean, I guess I can give all of you a few examples if you don’t mind?

NICO/VALEN: Yeah!

NICO: No, absolutely!

NICO/VALEN: Please do.

ALANIS: Sure. So, um, the first one I guess I can think about is the militarization in Vieques, which is an island–a small island off the coast of Puerto Rico, which is considered a part of Puerto Rico. And, you know, there’s a small population there. But the U.S marine settled itself there basically. So, they…It started in the 19th Century but, you know, across the 20th Century, um, they built forts and they basically trained U.S marines… They tested bombs in the island and…

VALEN: Oh man.

ALANIS: …as a result of that, you know, like, there were a lot of deaths and… Well not–I guess not too many– but like, once in a while, like, a Puerto Rican would die and of course, like, that’s still very important. Um… And… No, yeah, that was really rough for the Vieques population. And they only left, like, uh… like, I think 15 years ago in 2003? So…

VALEN: Oh my God…

NICO/ALANIS: Yeah.

NICO: …And what were some of those effects? I feel like a lot of, like, military testing and stuff like that can come with a lot of negative effects. Like, what were some–

VALEN: Health effects…

NICO: –of those effects? Yeah.

ALANIS: Definitely. Um, so they did a few studies in the 90s, um, and they found that cancer rates when compared to, like, the national U.S average, and also the national, like, Puerto Ri–The Mainland Puerto Rico average– was way higher. It was, like, I think it was 40% of the Vieques population had some type of cancer as a result of that radiation and that exposure…

NICO: Wow.

ALANIS: …to those chemicals. Um… No, and that has big, like, impacts. And Vieques is a small island, so it only has like one hospital…

VALEN: Oh my god…

ALANIS: And yeah. And it’s even been, like, impacted by Hurricane María… So, they’re just really struggling *nervous laughter* out there.

VALEN: I bet.

ALANIS: Um, yeah. And to think that they only left, like, in 2003…

VALEN: That’s…

ALANIS: That was the other day I feel…

VALEN: Yeah! That’s yesterday!

ALANIS: Yeah.

NICO: Yeah, absolutely.

VALEN: It’s crazy.

NICO: No, absolutely that’s crazy. And especially thinking about like, it was the U.S who did it. Almost to their own country too because it’s Puerto Rico. Like, that’s what we don’t think about a lot… it’s, like, Puerto Rico is part of the United States.

ALANIS: Yeah.

NICO: And you’re really doing that to your own citizens if you think about it you know?

ALANIS: Basically.

VALEN: Mhmm.

ALANIS: I mean, I guess in a sense that’s why people, like… You know, there’s, like. this term. Like, second class citizens and so–

VALEN: Right.

ALANIS: –we can think of Puerto Ricans when we, you know, learn about that concept because it’s basically how it’s been for the past… 100-ish years?

NICO: Right.

ALANIS: Yeah.

VALEN: It’s considered part of the U.S for the good things but, um…

ALANIS: Exactly.

VALEN: For…

ALANIS: When it´s convenient.

VALEN: …for the things that aren’t convenient… Then we drop bombs on them…?

ALANIS: Yeah.

VALEN: No longer U.S.

NICO: Right, right.

ALANIS: It took a lot to take them out of that island. Um, I think it was when those, like, cancer re–that…That cancer research came out? And people saw what it was actually doing to the Vieques population that a lot of, like, um, protests started. Like civil disobedience…

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: Um, like, there was like… I read an article where it was, like, a lot of Puerto Rican, like, sailors? Or not sailors… It was like, f–oh, fishermen! Um, they would literally just block, like, the way of some U.S Marine ships as a way of, like, protesting. I mean, there were times where it would get violent. Like, they would attack those fishermen for, you know, protesting. But… Um, yeah. That’s kind of how we reached the part of our, you know, we reached the… We, we, like… We were successful in getting the U.S Marine out.

NICO: Yeah, yeah. And I guess that’s one little knot in this chain of, of, of the complication of the United States–

ALANIS: Oh yeah.

NICO –and Puerto Rico.

VALEN: Oh yeah.

ALANIS: There’s a lot of–

NICO: You know.

ALANIS: –examples.

NICO: What, what, what else… What else have you seen? What else have you seen in your research that, you know, that, that, that can tell a little bit more of this U.S and Puerto Rican relation?

ALANIS: Yeah. So, there was also a lot of, like, controversy with Puerto Rican women. So, you know birth control, right? So, that was tested, um, with Puerto Rican women. First with guinea pigs and, you know, hamsters. And then with Puerto Rican women.

VALEN: Wow…

ALANIS: Um…

VALEN: Wow.

ALANIS: Yeah…

VALEN: That’s um… That’s a very interesting…

NICO: Yeah…

VALEN: …way of comparing it.

ALANIS: Follow up.

ALANIS/VALEN: Yeah.

ALANIS: So. It started in the 50s, um, and these two researchers –I don’t remember their names I’m sorry. But they approached, um, Puerto Ricans just because it was also like an easy flight there. They didn’t have to, like, go internationally… Um, although they did also do testings in Haiti.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: But anyways, the point is they reached Puerto Rican women. They usually tardy—targeted, like, more illiterate and poor women, so they couldn’t really know what they were consenting to. Um… And so they started these tests and, of course, there were women that were getting, like, asf–adverse effects because we know how many symptoms the-

VALEN: Oh yeah.

ALANIS: -birth control pill can give in, like, small doses. But, you know, this was, like, um… Tested in Puerto Rican women in higher doses. Because they were still in, you know, in those experiments… In that experimental stage.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: And so, these trials continued for a while until like… Uh, he-a big… There was a big distrust with researchers now, and so women, like, one by one started getting off the trials, um… But of course, like, there was also a necessity, like, there was a reason why they got into the trial-

VALEN: Right.

ALANIS:- at first or, like, why they accepted it even though they didn’t know exactly what they were signing up to.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: Like, this is a time where women were having more than 10 chil- children, and they didn’t necessarily have, like, the best marriage. And so, you know, there was this one story that really stuck with me about a woman that she already had 10 children, and she had a husband that kind of asked for intercourse, like, every day, like, on a daily basis. And she would tell the researchers, like, I need, like, I can’t have any more children, like, I’ll take anything you can offer me.

NICO: Right.

ALANIS: And so, they would take advantage of women like that, and they wouldn’t even offer or give them the option… Um, to use the birth control pill once it was, like- like, more healthy and, you know, FDA approved.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: So, it’s just a huge controversy.

VALEN: I have a question about that. Do you know if they were paid in the trials or not even that?

ALANIS: I wouldn’t be surprised that they weren’t paid.

VALEN: Yeah, yeah.

ALANIS: Just I guess-

VALEN: It seems like the type of thing that they wouldn’t pay for.

ALANIS: Yeah.

NICO: And this is-

ALANIS: Getting contraception was kind of the payment, I guess.

NICO: Is that in- in- is that we’re talking about, like, the birth control as, like, as the-

ALANIS: Yeah.

NICO: -as the pill, right?

ALANIS: Mhmm.

NICO: As the contraceptive, right?

ALANIS: Yeah.

NICO: And is that, like, the only method or form of birth control that was tested on Puerto Rican women?

ALANIS: There was also this thing called La Operación. Um, it was the most common one, and it goes back to- like-. Even though birth control was an option, it wasn’t really an option when it was FDA approved. It was an option just for experiments, so the one the most like… Um, popular form of contraception for Puerto Rican women was something called La Operación. It was so common that people would describe it like it was a trend. Like, women were getting it all the time. Um, it started in the 30s, so you know, just in time and as a result of the eugenics movement-

NICO: Yeah.

VALENTINA: Mmm.

ALANIS: -that also reached Puerto Rico.

VALENTINA: Oh! Yeah…

ALANIS: And, so yeah, it started in the 30s, and it lasted till, like, the 70s. Um, so you know, the birth control was definitely approved by the 70s, but it wasn’t an option. It was first La Operación. And you know, what happened was that Puerto Rican women would get to the doctor… Um, and of course, like, these were Puerto Rican doctors. But they were trained-, you know, they were taken to the U.S. to perform this surgery.

VALENTINA: Hmm.

ALANIS: And they wouldn’t really, like, give women any other option. They would tell them, like, ”You need to get this operation.” Like, “you don’t want any more children? You need to get this.” And of course,like, it wasn’t consent because women didn’t really know what they were getting- what they were signing up for.

NICO: Right.

VALENTINA: Of course.

ALANIS: Um… A lot of women thought that it was reversible.

NICO: Yeah…

VALENTINA: Oh.

ALANIS: And you know there was also, like, obviously the option for the man that was more- it was more safe and it was reversible. But you know, at that time, who’s the woman to say that she doesn’t want to get the operation?

VALENTINA: Of course.

ALANIS: Um… The husband could just sign off on-

NICO: Mmm…

ALANIS: -the operation being done on Puerto Rican women. So… Yeah! This kept on to like the 70s, um, when eventually, like, I think it just got, like, less popular gradually, I guess.

NICO: Okay. And did- did- did you think, like, Puerto Rican women started to notice like, “Dang, this is not reversible.” Like-

ALANIS: Yeah…

NICO: …This is not what I signed up for; like, that kind of…probably …also kind of started to like-

VALENTINA: Yeah, people were starting to realize like, “Oh, hold on a second. Hold on.”

NICO: -yeah, this is not what I signed up for at all.

ALANIS: No, yeah. There were women that were, like, in their 20s. Like, they would get it done- I don’t know-, like, at 20, and they weren’t even in, like, in a relationship. And then, they get married to someone and they were like, “Oh, I wanted to have children with this- with this- person.” Um… And they couldn’t anymore. So yeah, they definitely didn’t know what they were signing up for.

NICO/VALENTINA: Yeah…

NICO: No, that’s terrible. And- and- and this has, like, a lot of, like, more de- it has a lot of more depth- to it. We’re kind of going in, like, the- the- skimming over, so if you guys want to learn more about- really everything about- La Operación y todo eso. Tenemos una- We have- a little note here talking about, um, a documentary that came out in 1982 that, um, talks about what happened with La Operación in- in- in that time in Puerto Rico, right?

VALENTINA: And we will be, um, once the podcast is released, we’ll also be releasing some resources, some sources for the things that we’ve talked about, uh, in here. And so, you can go and check out the documentary in those sources.

NICO: Absolutely! Yeah, I would encourage you to do so.

VALENTINA: And you can find those in our instagram.

NICO: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

VALENTINA: Yeah.

NICO: And so a lot of this kind of started and was happening throughout the 19th century you know from what was it the 30s to like the 80s. Actually, the 20th century. So what is the relationship now has it gotten better between Puerto Rico and USA?

ALANIS: Um well that’s what we’re here for to clarify questions! So no, I guess it did get better like those human rights situations they kind of they weren’t as common anymore thank god! But you know we’re still a commonwealth so there’s still like this controversy of like- are we a colony? are we not? Um I feel like it’s up to the Puerto Rican to decide that sometimes. So as we said like we can kind of review- like we were not able to vote for president there’s no representation in congress and the one delegate that we do have which is called the resident commissioner can’t- doesn’t have a vote so you know it’s- it’s weird that we- we don’t have a vote but we can be drafted into wars. So I guess what Valentina said earlier about where U.S. Territory when it’s convenient or something.

NICO: Yeah, yeah and what is what so you said um- the representative that Puerto Rico does have. What- what is his job? Like what does that look like you know?

ALANIS: It’s basically to communicate what the Puerto Rican population wants. So let’s say that there’s a reference referendum which there was the last one was in 2020. Um and if the referendum kind of says that we want to be a state then or that that’s like the popular like opinion then– they kind of take those results and they like advocate for us like they debate and they just kind of advocate for the puerto rican population and what we want.

NICO: Okay

ALANIS: Not that a lot happens as a result of that.

VALENTINA: But he’s still like he has no vote either

ALANIS: yeah, so yeah

NICO: That’s really hard especially because you then you don’t have any voice in- in- in- government. You know you have no representation in the senate, you have no representation in- in congress. So you can’t- you can’t- get any laws passed or anything that that is helping Puerto Rico. And so what is that what- what- what- what- is that looking like right now in Puerto Rico really?

ALANIS: I mean there’s no progress I would say. Like we have like so many colonial characteristics and you know there’s like- slowly the popular opinion of wanting to like become a state is decreasing, but even if it that is what the majority of Puerto Ricans want. Like just because there’s like a position doesn’t mean that the U.S. congress is like obligated to take that into account. So yeah they take that information they take it to Congress but they’re not legally obliged to say okay sure we’ll make you a state. No- it’s been going on for a while and nothing has changed. You know there’s also like other colonial characteristics that make people think that- “Oh no we’re still a colony” Um I guess- oh

ALANIS: I can talk about the Cabotage Laws. That’s weird I always say it in Spanish. It was enacted in the 1900s and I talk about this because it’s still prevalent today.

VALENTINA: Right.

ALANIS: So this basically means that Puerto Ricans can’t trade with any other country. Anything that comes in and out of the country or the island. Um- has to be in an American boat with American crew it can’t be from anywhere else.

VALENTINA: Oh man.

ALANIS: Yeah so it’s kind of ridiculous.

VALENTINA: Yeah and that’s a lot for the economy, I imagine. Prices must hike up.

ALANIS: No definitely like if something for example is coming from South America they have to go up all the way to Florida, Jacksonville to then go back down to Puerto Rico. And yeah that does have implications for prices in Puerto Rico.

VALENTINA: That’s yeah that’s ridiculous.

ALANIS: Like it’s still kind of a debate, like while I was researching I saw that some economists said- um that there wasn’t as much change. But there I- then I- saw another article that actually had evidence that prices went up just because like you know gasoline prices from go- taking that extra hike up to Jacksonville and then going down. Like of course that has an implication in the Puerto Rican economy.

VALENTINA: Right and the fact that Puerto Rico can only trade with the US as well can only sell to the US. Also um- that means that the US can pretty much choose- pick and choose prices from you. Um so yeah and I don’t think those prices are going to be very,um, just.

ALANIS: Yeah, I know exactly like- if you go to Puerto Rico right now. Like there’s compared to like- a like- an American grocery store like there’s- there’s- less products and the products that are there are more expensive. And so like yeah it doesn’t. Research doesn’t even have to be done about it like.

VALENTINA: You can just see it- perceive it yourself literally.

NICO: Um yeah and so has there been any like change or any like movement to like- kind of get rid of the Jones Act. Because the Jones Act to me it seems like it’s making things a lot harder for- for- for- um Puerto Rico in-in the way that you know it comes to relations with other countries when it comes to trading with other countries. When it comes to really it’s international power. Um so have there been any pushes or what- what is it what would it look like without the Jones Act? Like, you know?

ALANIS: So, economically would benefit us- like, greatly. Um, of course I’m like- I’m not an economist to, like, be talking about this i guess but i’ve definitely, like, read quite a few articles and um- it would help us- I feel like when we talk about the economic recession in Puerto Rico we always mention, um,  things like, oh like workers or like corruption. Of course there’s corruption in the Puerto Rican government, but there’s also other things that relate to our relationship with the us that impact that and, you know, that’s where the conversation about the Jones Act starts. And so, not really. Like, of course there’s been protests from, like, Puerto Ricans when we’re talking, when we’re having these conversations they mention like: if you want us to get better, then remove that act. But of course that’s never the option. Instead they do other things like impose a very colonialistic management board which is called la Junta De Control Fiscal or The Financial Oversight and Management Board in English- um, and they implemented that kind of to help us with our economic recession but it’s also been very controversial.

NICO: Yeah, and what are what are some of those controversies with-with the overs- with, um, the financial oversight management board? Like- what is- what do they do and when- what issues have you seen with that- um.

ALANIS: So the Obama administration implemented that for Puerto Ricans and he also elected like- Obama himself elected the members of that administration and what they basically do is they just- literally, um- they just oversee everything so they approve the fiscal… oh, i forgot how to phrase this, but it’s like the budget of the the fiscal year budget. Um, they passed laws like- if-if we’re passing a law about, i don’t know, like municipality funding or anything related to budget they can sue us if they don’t agree.

VALENTINA: They can sue you?!

ALANIS: Yes, they can sue. Very- um, yeah, very weird, um. And so yeah, they have they approve all of that. And, you know, this sounded good at first. Like, there were puerto ricans that were like: sure we need help with this. Like, there’s corruption, like, we need more guidance and- fun fact: like, the- it’s either the president- I think it’s the director of la junta, she helped Greece with their economic recession, um, she helped them a lot. Like, i don’t know how much time but they eventually went- got out of that economic recession.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: Yeah but- um, still, like, since she wasn’t, like- since the board was imposed, there’s been a lot of controversies. Like, they’ve made cuts in public health care and, um, they’ve closed down so many public schools and they’ve taken away funding from the- you know, the public university of puerto rico.

VALENTINA: Interesting…

ALANIS: No, it’s been- it’s been bad, like- yeah. It reached a point where, like, certain Puerto Ricans that were in agreement with the board at first, they’re not anymore. Like, they’re-

VALENTINA: Do we know where that money’s going to? That- like, the funds that were cut- is there any, like, open…

ALANIS: To be honest, like,their ultimate goal is to lower our- what’s that call– our debt. So we have a huge debt. Some of it is you know with the board like- there’s been politicians that argue that we need to restructure the the debt. And so that has been done in the past like two years I think. Which is good um- but basically I think any cut that they make in that- they pass- is to help relieve the debt that we have to like US. I think it’s the US Government and also um- Bonistas.

ALANIS: That’s how I would say it in- in- Spanish but I can’t remember the word for it right now right. And so no yeah it’s just it’s supposed to be helping like our economy right now but there’s certain details about the law that um- don’t really make sense. So for example, like the Natal  that I mentioned that her salary is 625 000.

VALENTINA: Oh my god!

ALNAIS: Yeah.

NICO: Who pays that?

ALANIS: Thats more than the US president.

NICO: Yeah who pays that?

ALANIS: Do you want to know who pays them? The Puerto Rican government of course. And it’s like so- it’s like a paradox almost. Like they’re there to help us with our economic recession yet we have to pay not that’s just one salary. But like I don’t know how many members there are but there’s more than five and we have to pay all of their salaries.

VALENTINA: That’s too much.

NICO: That’s pretty six-figure salary too. Yeah lamborghini.

VALENTINA: That part of- that part of like some healthcare and some education i’m sure is also going to that salary.

ALANIS: Yeah no that’s the thing like there’s also there’s also been like talks of like- um- conflict of interest. There hasn’t been anything that has like come out yet but I feel like- I have- I suspect you know- my personal opinion: that in the next five years like- there’ll be some report on like the conflict of interest. And politicians have asked for them. Like because they keep cutting like you said from like public needs but where’s that where’s that going?

ALANIS:  And so a lot of people are saying like they’re making money out of that somehow because we have this phrase that is like some Puerto Rican politician said this once and can be applied to a lot of places. It’s like “for every suspicious act that is going on or that they pass someone’s making money out of it”

VALENTINA: Oh yeah!

ALANIS: So I feel like that’s what we see with this board all the time.

VALENTINA: Absolutely, oh no!

NICO: Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

ALANIS: Oh yeah.

VALENTINA: Yeah… And as I understand this is like mandatory as well. Like- the board is mandatory.

ALANIS: Yeah we have no say in whether it stays or goes.

VALENTINA: Oh amazing- so it’s like here you go um- “you pay for this too!” “Like no we don’t want it!” “No you’re- you’re gonna have it and you’re gonna pay for it!”

NICO: Yeah you’re gonna have this and you’re stuck please pay for the salary as well yeah. “So we came up with this concept for your country right? and so your country’s gonna get out of this recession and you’re gonna pay for it!” Pretty much that’s crazy! Because it’s like- not like Puerto Rico had the money there in- in- the first place!

VALENTINA: Oh yeah!

NICO: And so in that- is that still currently going on?

ALANIS: Yeah and what surprises me. What I kind of like about- like the effects that it’s had– I  feel like it unifies Puerto Ricans because you know Puerto Ricans– there are some that want statehood, some that want independence, and some that just want to stay how they are like as a commonwealth. But in that sense like even the current governor that is pro-statehood- even he has problems with the with the oversight management board sometimes! So I feel like it’s not even- uh- like what we want for the future of Puerto Rico. It’s like common dislike towards the board sometimes.

NICO and VALENTINA: Yeah!

VALENTINA: And like it makes sense!

NICO: Yeah especially the 625 000.

VALENTINA: That’s so much! And I’ve been hearing a lot about um- Act 2022!

ALANIS: Oh yeah!

VALENTINA: But I can’t like i haven’t been able to yeah like research what it is- or anything could you tell us a little bit about that?

ALANIS: Yeah sure! So there’s quite a few acts that are act as like tax incentives for certain people. But yeah Act 2022 is like the most known. I feel! Um it’s very much promoted in the US like uh kind of like a- “cruise promo” or something. Very- very yeah usually I mean lately it’s been very popular. And so basically–

VALENTINA: Very American dreamy!!

ALANIS: Yeah- Puerto Rico dreamy! This means thats any international, non US residents and non Puerto Rico residents can move to Puerto Rico. They get tax incentives and you pay 0 percent in income taxes. So we do not pay federal income taxes. So these people are getting double tax incteives. The idea is that they bring their businesses here and they pay they- get a tax incentive. And so you know it’s all sounds great!

ALANIS: Like we used to have a similar law called- um it’s the 936 Law it was in the 2000s. It was like in effect since the 90s I think- but it stopped being in effect in the 2000s. And it was great for Puerto Rico like it was doing well for the economy. It was good employment for Puerto Ricans. You know the unemployment rate in Puerto Rico has always been really high- so it was good employment for Puerto Ricans. But then it was taken out in 2000. And they voted to take it out but then it went into effect 2005. And so ever since then we’ve been in a recession. So it’s a lot of economists can agree and that that was a big contributor to the comic recession. So I feel like they try to bring that back in a way with this act 2022. But it really hasn’t had the same results like socially and economically.

NICO: Yeah, no I was just-I was just thinking when you said that: I was like didn’t I hear somebody like that Logan Paul was moving to Puerto Rico.

VALENTINA: Oh my god really?

NICO: I just had to look it up to make sure that i was thinking of that right and i’m wondering if it’s because of that- because there’s no attack like that tax incentive. That has to sound real- real nice to a celebrity, especially if you’re making so much money and that just shows like that money is not going to the Puerto Rico. It’s not going to the U.S. Government. It’s going to right back into the rich person’s pocket.

ALANIS: Exactly- No yeah. Logan Paul lives right next to my neighborhood. It’s like- it’s my neighborhood and then there’s like it’s called Dorado Beach. It’s a really um luxurious like neighborhood and that’s where a lot of the americans are are moving to. And that’s why like prices have gone up so much. But yeah fun fact Logan Paul lives there! And I’ve had a few friends see him.

VALENTINA: That’s crazy.

ALANIS: Yeah it is funny.

NICO: And so in- because this was kind of brought into like add jobs right? To add more opportunities to add money to bring money in right.

ALANIS: That was the idea.

NICO: And and it’s kind of done the exact opposite.

ALANIS: Like it’s they recently did a study on whether it’s- because it’s been already there for a decade. They implemented it in 2012. So they did like kind of like a decade like “let’s follow up.”

NICO: Right.

ALANIS: And they found that for how it having been there for a decade it hasn’t been that much progress. Like it’s been a really small like like benefit to the economy.

VALENTINA: That should give you an idea of how it’s working and for who it’s working too.

ALANIS: Exactly and so I’m not sure. I feel like I need to read more a little bit on that to see what is it exactly that they amended to kind of make it have more of an economic impact. But I think yeah– I’m not- I really can’t talk a lot about that. But yeah they just kind of signed off to have it for 10 more 15 more years.

VALENTINA: Wow yeah- oh no!

NICO: It’s it seems like a tax incentivized um–

VALENTINA: Gentrification?

NICO: Right yeah!

VALENTINA: It’s literally incentivized gentrification-

ALANIS: Oh yeah, definitely.

VALENTINA: -it seems like.

ALANIS: Basically. No and for real, like, prices have been going up. So, in that neighborhood that I was talking to you aboutDorado Beach. Like, it’s always been a luxurious and, like, really expensive neighborhood. But for example, a house that was a million dollars there before even like 900,000 dollars before is now like- some are being sold in- 15 million.

NICO: Yeah.

VALENTINA: Oh no.

ALANIS: And it’s- it’s insane-

NICO: Right.

ALANIS: -like insane. And of course it makes like- like real estate- Puerto Rican real estate people are prioritizing selling houses-

NICO: Yeah, they’re probably loving it, yeah.

ALANIS: -Americans because, like, a Puerto Rican might offer you, like, the value of the house.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: But if there’s an American that doubles the price, of course, you’re going to sell it to an American.

NICO: Yeah.

VALENTINA: Of course.

ALANIS: So, you want to know something? Like, literally I heard about-, um, so there was like- I heard that they were selling houses, but they were like- like- auctioning it. So they would all meet and, like, they were just like to see who would offer mo- more-

VALENTINA: Yeah!

ALANIS: -or most for the house. Um… And I just found that insane, like, I’ve never heard of someone selling a house-

VALENTINA/NICO: Auctioning a house.

ALANIS: Yeah.

NICO: Yeah, no. They do it a little bit here, but it’s not very common.

ALANIS: No. And not even, like, economically, like, also, like, social impacts. So… There was this- I’m gonna talk about this- so there was this encounter that we had. So before, we didn’t really notice when there were Americans, like, moving because of that. Like, you saw an American here or there, but you didn’t really know it was because of a tax incentive.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: But now it’s, like, so common that, um, they’re even promo- promoting it in Silicon Valley that there’s a lot more.

VALENTINA: Really?

ALANIS: Yeah. *Laughter*

VALENTINA: In Silicon Valley?

ALANIS: Yeah. There’s, like, ads. Like, you want to live in paradise or something? Like, come get tax incentivized.

VALENTINA: Oh no.

ALANIS: Yeah. I saw that the other day.

VALENTINA: This reminds me a lot to what happened to Cuba over a while ago that- because, like, a lot of Americans ended up in Cuba that way. They were like: “This, like, tropical paradise. Come here, super exotic, and things like that.” And it ended up-, like, a lot of Cuba was sold to Americans and then, like, you know. Yeah. It was a huge problem.

ALANIS: Yeah. I know. The social impact has been insane and so-, um, so now that we’re noticing so many, like, Americans coming, I feel like they’re also feeling that they’re entitled to a lot of things. So… Sure, if you want to come here and be entitled to your tax incentives, whatever. But there was this one situation where it was this couple that they bought, um, a condo right in front of the beach. It was like a- it’s called Ocean Park, where it used to be called Ocean Park. Um… And it’s very popular, and then, they moved there. And they weren’t-, like, they were in the beach and they weren’t allowing people to like- like- I think it was play tennis in front of their beach apartment. And there were Puerto Ricans, like, confronting them like: you can’t tell us what to do; like, beaches are public in Puerto Rico; like, even if you try to privatize them in your own way, like, that’s not that’s not how it is.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: And- you know- and because of that-, like, that went viral on TikTok, naturally.

VALENTINA: Of course.

ALANIS: And there was this protest. So, usually, that beach is, like, regularly, like, filled. Like, there’s not, like, that many people, but it got so full as a way of, like, protesting.

NICO: Just packed it out.

ALANIS: Packed, so packed.

VALENTINA: Ooh.

ALANIS: And not just to, like, play- there was, like, tennis tournaments. Um… We were-, like, there were- there was, like, a band and they were people dancing, like, Bomba y Plena. It was amazing!

VALENTINA: That’s awesome, honestly. That sounds like a great party.

NICO: Right?

ALANIS: It was and it was literally a form of protest. That was amazing! No, Puerto Ricans are, like, notoriously known for protesting- protesting- in very creative-

VALENTINA: -fun ways.

NICO: Yeah, yeah.

Alanis: If you all want to know more about that, just look up summer 2019 in Puerto Rico and you’ll see all the creative ways we protested. *laughter*

VALENTINA: Amazing.

ALANIS: Yeah. So- so now, we call it Karen’s beach, naturally, out of that protest.

NICO: Right.

VALENTINA: Yeah.

ALANIS: And that’s just one situation of, like, so many people are coming and they’re feeling entitled to this type of economic benefits that they think even the land is theirs.

NICO: Yeah, they own it.

ALANIS: And they’re not, no. You can’t buy beaches.

VALENTINA: It sounds like what? Colonization?

NICO: What?

ALANIS: Wait, really? I didn’t know.

VALENTINA: Hold on. Hmm… Entitled to land that it’s not theirs

NICO: Wow.

ALANIS: Interesting.

NICO: We never heard that one before.

VALENTINA: No, that’s a new one.

NICO: So, in with everything that’s going on, everything that’s happening in Puerto Rico, like, what- where- where can we go now? Like, what’s the future looking like for- for Puerto Rico? What- what can us in the United States do? Like, can we change with Act 2020? Like, where- where can we- where can we help?

ALANIS: Um… So I mean, I guess, what I would say is just spread awareness. Like, when I came to study at Elon, I didn’t realize, like, how many people didn’t even know about Puerto Rico. Like, and of course, like, I guess to an extent it’s not their fault because it wasn’t, like, that taught in, um-

VALENTINA: Yeah, the education system is not great about talking about it.

ALANIS: Of course. Um… and so but either way, like, now that we have more access to the internet. And, like, we- I don’t know- in our classes also, like, learning more about other countries. Like, just spread more awareness about Puerto Rico and, like, the fact that we are U.S. citizens. We are not a state, but you know, we are still U.S. citizens. English is taught in our island. There’s a lot of people that, like, ask, “Oh, how do you know English so well?” And well, it’s because we are a colony of the United States. *laughter* But yeah, you know, just spreading awareness. I guess, holding peers accountable when they say, like, microaggressions about Puerto Ricans; about, like, the economy; anything, really.

NICO: Yeah.

VALENTINA: Yeah.

NICO: And I mean I think at least for me, like, throughout this podcast and, like, not throughout this podcast but, um, before this podcast and now- kind of now it’s changed my perspective on Pue- on Puerto Rico and what, you know, research I need to be aware of because I definitely grew up in the American education system where we did not learn a lick about Puerto Rico.  Like, I knew, like, it was a part of the U.S. It wasn’t kind of a part of the U.S. Like, it was a very gray zone that I was taught, um, that Puerto Rico lives in. And I know that now with- with this, um, information, with this podcast at least for me it’s definitely opening up my eyes. And- and seeing that, um, I need to be more aware of not only just Puerto Rico but all American territories that we still have, um, power over in- in- in their struggles and- and what the- the American government is doing to help them, to hurt them, you know. What the situation is with them because, um, a lot of this information I didn’t even know.

ALANIS: No. And not even you, Nico. Like, for example, like, I also in a way also grew up in the American system because, like, I took classes of American history, in European history, whatever.

NICO: Yeah.

ALANIS: And I only took Puerto Rican history for two years. For, like, the twelve years that I was, like, in elementary, middle school, and high school, I only took it for two years.

NICO: That’s crazy.

ALANIS: For being in the island, I feel like that’s really low.

VALENTINA: Oh wow.

NICO: And you’re in Puerto Rico learning.

ALANIS: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. So, like, you know, not just you. There’s a lot of things that we had- we learned from, like, our teachers that they would go, like, off track to talk about but not in the books.

NICO: Right.

VALENTINA: No and even, like, in latin america, even international students, we don’t really know about this type of thing. I think I got to know that Puerto Rico couldn’t vote here in elon, like, when I came here. So yeah, and- and American- the American education system reaches farther than you would think.

NICO: Right.

VALENTINA: A lot of countries based their systems off of the American system. So, you know, it is complicated. It’s important to talk about it. Even if you’re an international student, get the word out, get the word to other places. Um… And yeah. And not even- not only Puerto Rico.

Alanis: Yeah, not just Puerto Rico.

VALENTINA: Yeah. What are, um, other commonwealths?

ALANIS: Like, even i was like trying to, like, learn more, um, because if Puerto Ricans like me are gonna- kind of- ask Americans or, like, even international students to be more aware of the Puerto Rican issue, we also have to think of, like, U.S Virgin Islands. Like, um, just other territories of the U.S, even, like, Hawaii. Um… Hawaii is a state, right? But I just- researching, I found out that they also still have the Jones Act.

NICO: Yeah!

VALENTINA: Oh!

ALANIS: Stuff like that, and I’m just like okay. Um… so just learning more about U.S. territories and not just Puerto Rico. Just spreading awareness about, like, the U.S. history that they don’t really want to teach in the books.

VALENTINA: Right.

NICO:  Absolutely, no, absolutely. And that, I mean, that’s really just kind of staying informed. I guess, almost all of our podcasts are like that. Just staying informed and continuing that. But, um, thank you so much for being such a good resource for us today.

ALANIS: Yeah, thank you.

VALENTINA: Thank you for hanging out with us.

NICO: Absolutely! Spending some time getting to know you and Puerto Rico, you know, um, learning a little bit more about- about the history and everything. So we really appreciate it.

ALANIS: Thank you both for giving me the space to talk about my island. I’m really happy that I got to do that. Thank you.

VALENTINA: Awesome!

NICO: Absolutely. Um… I mean, do you have any final words?

VALENTINA: Not really. Good luck with the rest of the semester! Have fun! Study! Do your homework.

ALANIS: Just a few weeks left.

VALENTINA: Just a few weeks left. Hang in there! We got this!

NICO: Absolutely.

ALANIS: We do.

NICO: No, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Um… Everybody have a good week. Have a good rest of your month. ‘Till we see you all next time. Um… Echele ganas! And yeah, chau.

*opening music*

NICO: Bienvenidos y welcome a todos to the new installment of Siéntate y Hablemos. Um, I´m your gracious host Nico Gaspar, and today I have

VALEN: Valentina Echavarría

NICO: And today it’s just the two of us. *Sings* Just the two of us eyyy! *Laughs*.

VALEN: *Sings* We can do it if we…* Yeah! It’s just the two of us, uh, we had our magnificent researcher, Fernanda, uh, do, uh, all the research behind the scenes for us–

NICO: Yup.

VALEN: –and she decided that she didn’t wanna come and talk in the podcast, but we really really appreciate all her work, um, and all the love that she put into this project.

NICO: Mhmm.

VALEN: So…

NICO: Yeah, I mean, before we get into this topic, we´re– uh, today the topic is, um, trans rights in Brazil, right?

VALEN: Yup!

NICO: Transgender rights in Brazil. Um, and, just to–before we get into it–um, we wanna give a little disclaimer, have a trigger warning… Um,  and yeah, this is also my last podcast so…

VALEN: Yeah…

NICO: Sad days.

VALEN: Sad days, sad days, um…

NICO: But happy days too, cause, I mean, ya boys graduating.

VALEN: Man, I’m losing my host.

NICO: *Laughs*

VALEN: My co host.

NICO: I’m losing my co host–

VALEN: I´m so sad.

NICO: –at the same time too, so…

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: Um, *laughs*.

VALEN: It’s a nostalgic one today!

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Hmm.

NICO: I wanna thank everybody for start– you know, everybody who started the podcast. In the beginning and all that. Um…

VALEN: For those who don’t know, Nico is actually the founder of this podcast. He came up with the idea and we just ran through it with him. So, you can thank him for this, um–

NICO: Or not thank me for this *unintelligible* if you just don’t like the podcast…

VALEN: I guess so…

BOTH: *laugh*

NICO: Yeah, I just wanna thank everybody who’s done a ton of work with the podcast. Who’s done, you know… I couldn’t have been able to do this podcast by myself at all. Um, I wanna thank Valentina, especially, for this year being able to adapt, work with me, and really set out this plan to make a, a quality podcast for, for, for everybody so… I really appreciate everybody that has been involved throughout these two years of, of recording.

VALEN: Two years. Yeah.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: I wanna thank you. If you, like, if you hadn’t started this, none of this would have been possible and we both learn so much throughout the way…

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN: Um, we learn every single time we make a podcast. I just learned how to work part of this [referring to recording setup]so…getting ready to do this without my co host, but *laughs*. But yeah, thank you so much for this fantastic space.

NICO: Yeah, absolutely.

VALEN: And, yeah…

NICO: Uh that’s what– and that’s what we wanted to do. It’s just, open up a conversation and have a place for, uh, open dialogue to, to, to happen. And to talk about, you know, fun topics, but also talk about hard topics and, and be able to, um, bring representation and awareness to, um, issues that are happening en Latinoamérica. And, um, I’m really thankful for today’s podcast episode, um, on Brazil. And we´re– this is the first time we ever talk about Brazil.

VALEN: Mhmm.

NICO: So, um, yeah let’s get into it.

VALEN: Yeah! I do wanna have a little disclaimer. Uh, neither of us are from Brazil.

NICO: Nope.

VALEN: Our great researcher, um, IS from Brazil, and she has, uh, given us a lot of information. Um, we also wanna say, we are not, uh, belonging to the trans community, but we love all of our trans listeners and friends. Um…And we hope, uh, that this is an interesting topic and a place to learn for everybody.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Um, and just, take care of yourselves and be careful, uh, cause this information can also be a little triggering for some people.

NICO: Absolutely absolutely.

VALEN: With that being said…

NICO: Let´s get it going! Let’s get it on!

VALEN: Let´s get into it.

NICO: What– let´s, let´s, so, so, to start this, you know, whole egg to crack… You know… One: I dont think trans righ–transgender rights in, um, in Brazil, have ever been a, one: a big priority or a big thing in Brazil. Especially, um, talking to Fernanda, talking about a lot of the, the homophobia… A lot of, um, um, the issues that are happening, you know, culturally in Brazil, when it comes to transgender rights. So, um, we can kind of crack this egg open at the beginning with the history, um, and be able to understand, kind of, the past. So we can understand where we´re at now.

VALEN: Right, yes! So, um, the history of trans people in Brazil, uh, as far as we’ve seen, has started in, uh, 1962 and this is all… we’re talking about policy and rights, and, um, and things like that… Um, it started with a thing called “Tudo Ok”. I’m sorry if I’m butchering this. I don’t know, um, Portuguese but *laughs*… Um, eh… It was the first registered LGBTQIA institution in, uh, Brazil, um, and yeah it was founded in 1962 and then–

NICO: Yeah and then 1971 was the first genital sex change surgery, um, was performed on a trans woman in Brazil.

VALEN: Which is truly a historical turning point–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –for the country I believe.

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN: Um…

NICO: But that’s also ten years after the first registered LGBTQIA institution in Brazil was opened.

VALEN: Right.

NICO: So, I mean, it’s nine years but… 10 years.

VALEN: It’s a slow process for sure.

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN: Right, and so 20– uh, sorry, 2004, uh, January 29th, uh, was established the National Trans, uh, Visibility day so, uh, as we can see it– it’s slowly progressing. It’s slowly progressing.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: It takes a little bit but, um,  things are getting better by this time.

NICO: Um, so yeah, in 2009 the National Network of Trans People of Brazil was established, um, and what this was was a National Institution that represented transvestite and transsexual people in, um, the country, um… And yeah, that was a pretty big leap forward five years after, um, uh, the National Trans Visibility day was established.

VALEN: Yeah and then 2017 we have, um, Tiffany Abreu?–I’m sorry if I’m completely butchering this name–uh, but, um, she becomes the first Brazilian transsexual player to receive authorization from the International Volleyball Federation to play with the women’s team. Which is a huge, huge thing. And like, it’s– it’s just… a little frustrating that it only happened 2017. We’re still–we’re still fighting. We´re still–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –fighting out here

NICO: Yeah, no absolutely. And then in 2020, uh, most recently Erika Hilton becomes the first city, um, councilwoman in São Paulo, um… Um, being the highest voted woman nation–nationwide. Um, and I just think looking at all these dates and looking at, you know, a little bit of this history, like, a very small kind of portion of it you see, um, the, the growth but also, like, the, the change in how fast growth is happening right? In the very beginning we’re taking 10… we’re taking 20, 30 years to get change happening. But now we’re seeing, you know, a three year gap, a five year gap, you know? Smaller year gaps between, um, you know, different legislation getting passed, different supports getting passed, different, um, you know…

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: So I think that´s–that’s super interesting too. To just kind of look at how–how that history is changing… Um, you know?

VALEN: For sure, yeah. And not only the history, the rights are changing as well.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Which is so, so important. In 2008 the unified health system, um, SUS, created, um, a thing called “O Processo Transexualizador”… This process, uh, guarantees, uh, comprehensive healthcare to trans people including, uh, reception and access, uh, with respect to the, uh, SUS services. Including the use, er, of, uh, social name access to hormone therapy and access to sex reassignment surgery so…

NICO: That’s huge.

VALEN: This is huge.

NICO: Yeah, that’s huge.

VALEN: Yeah, and, um, like, the fact that this happened just like right before the REDETRANS, the National Network of Trans People in Brazil–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –it’s just, like, big steps are happening.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Big steps!

NICO: No, absolutely. And then in 2018 we’re looking at the Supreme Court, um, authorize the trans people to change their name and their gender directly in the registry office without having to obtain the judicial, um, authorization. And if I understand correctly, before that you would have to go show up in front of a judge. And the judge kind of gets to decide whether you can or cannot change your name or can or cannot change your gender.

VALEN: Right, uh, which is ridiculous.

NICO: Yeah, instead of just going through the registry.

VALEN: Yeah…Um, so, going forward: In 2019 the Supreme Court, um, determined that discrimination by sexual orientation and gender identity would be considered crimes.

NICO: Hmm…

VALEN: Um, very important because even though you’re able, um, to come out as yourself and–and become the person that you wanna be, um, you could still be mistreated and you could still… There–there’s still a lot going on with that so the criminalization of, um, discrimination is pretty important.

NICO: No, absolutely. It really is. And–and–and we continue to see, um, legislation getting passed and things getting ha–um… Getting…getting moved along in 2019. Um, with the Federal Council of Medicine, um, published new rules for gender transition treatments expanding access to surgery and basic care for trans people which is huge because then that also helps them with, you know, making sure that they get the medicine they get the health needs…their health needs met. Um, and they’re getting that through the government rather than some private entity or something like that so it’s more standardized, more people can get it, hopefully. Um, but we’re– we see, we do definitely see a little bit of legislation change, uh, rights being changed, uh… Culturally, being a little change? I think that’s where we see a little bit less of changes in the culture, you know?

VALEN: Right.

NICO: Um… I don’t know. Some of the cases that we were looking at, um, in 2017 I guess, Dandara, um, dos Santos, um, was dragged from her home into a street and kicked, punched, and hit with shoes and a plank of wood. Like, it’s still very dangerous for transgender people in Brazil. Especially with the presidency that we have now, um, that we see now in Brazil, um, and this is–it’s a horrifying story. I don’t even know if I want to continue to read that–

VALEN: We´re–

NICO: –story. I mean, there’s a…yeah.

VALEN: –definitely taking steps back which is very alarming, um, and this is why we decided to talk about this today.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Uh, Fernanda brought this to our attention, um, and yeah, it is a very important topic to be aware of and, um, to push, um, for change on–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –these types of things, um, because we cannot go silent like this.  I–I don’t believe these cases that we’re talking about have gotten out of the country’s news network? Um, and, um, yeah, it–it does need to be out there so we can like,–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –pressure government to do something better than they’re doing–

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN; –right now.

NICO: Because these– so, we– we do have these two cases that, that, that have been highlighted, that have happened in Brazil. That 2017 case was very public, um, that––when it happened in Brazil the video came out, a lot of people saw it, and it–I–it hopefully sparked at least a conversation. At least some change. At least something so that some, some sort of positive progress can happen because, um, we continue to see cases like this even, even up until today.

VALEN: Yeah and it’s terrible that this is what it takes to spark a conversation–

NICO: Yeah. Right.

VALEN: –on the topic. It shouldn’t be this.

NICO: It shouldn’t, yeah.

VALEN: It shouldn’t get to this. Um, and the other case that, um, we are talking about today is Roberta da Silvia?– Silva. Um, on July 2021, um– super recent– a trans woman had, uh, 40% of her body burned and, uh, one arm amputated after a teenager set her on fire. So like, even the younger generation… Like, this is not a generational thing, it’s just a general…

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Yeah?

NICO: Cultural.

VALEN: Just cultural.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: She eventually passed due to complications, sadly. Um, and this has sparked a whole new, um, wave of conversations on the topic. Um, so… Yes. Um…

NICO: Yeah, and I mean, we gotta look at like, what, what is it looking like culturally in Brazil right now, you know? Especially with the perceptions of gender– with the perceptions of changing your gender. Especially from men going to women, women going to men like, what–

VALEN: Right.

NICO: –what those differences are, you know?

VALEN: And talking to, um, and talking to Fernanda, um, it is, uh, it seems to be more dangerous to be a trans woman than a trans man. And we’ll get a little bit into this in–in a second but, um, um… This is also the case in the U.S I believe? Um, where trans women are at more… more risk, um, due to a, a very toxic masculinity driven society–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –that we live in.

NICO: Absolutely. I mean, that’s what I would say is like, a lot of the gender perceptions –at least what Fernanda was telling us about– and we see this a lot in the United States as well is like –and really all over Latino America– is, is the perceptions and the views of machismo.

VALEN: Mhmm.

NICO: And that affects and, and, can, can have a huge effect when a man goes from being a man to a woman. Especially just, um, as a man, when you were told to be, you know, strong. And be a man. Be a man. Be a man. And then now you’re like “Nah, I don’t even want to be a man. Like, I just want– I want to be a different gender.”. Like, that… That culturally in Latin America is like –especially in machismo culture– is going against everything machismo culture stands for. And so when that system is trying to be upheld and it’s been upheld for so many decades, you know, people trying to break that system, it’s gonna co–it like…That has come with a ton of risk and a ton of danger and, um, we’ve seen cases of violence and, um, and, and, and that’s a lot. That’s a, that’s a really big and hard change to go through.

VALEN: Yeah, and also talking about these gender roles: From a young age, um, girls in Brazil are taught to perform house chores in a much more significant way than boys are. And there are, um, like, there’s a significant, um, divide as to, um, what things they have to perform. Uh, they have to stay at home sometimes and help their families where boys are out there–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –having fun.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Um, and I guess maybe that’s also why some people see it as a threat? That, um, well, trans women are women. Because those gender roles are being, um, for them muddled and…

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Yeah. They lose, they lose that…

NICO: Yeah, modeled and taught, and, and, and, and really ingrained into a kid from a young age, you know? What, um, what certain gender norms you have to fit in so that you can, um, consider yourself, um, a man or you can consider yourself a woman. Um, and we, and we see a lot of, a lot of the things that Fernanda brought to our attention that are happening in Brazil, we see a lot of the same things happening in the United States. Where girls are usually thought to be more emotional, and, and, and sensitive, and have more of that, that, that “weaker” side. And the men have to be, you know, seen as a–

VALEN: “Strong”.

NICO: –strong, courageous, brave, you know? De todo, like, you gotta, you gotta take on the world sometimes.

VALEN: Mmmm.

NICO: And like, that… That for both genders is so toxic.

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: You know?

VALEN: And sadly, like, this has also reached, um, Native Indigenous communities in–

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN: –in Brazil. And, like –in the majority of the world as well– um, due to, uh, patriarchal, uh, practices and the effects of colonization, um, Indigenous women are often discouraged to participate in society and they´re placed then in a vulnerable situation, um, and subjected to discrimination and violation of their rights. And not only this–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –but a lot of Indigenous communities have a very different –had at least– or traditionally have a very different perception of gender than the westernized view that we have now. Um, even to the point of having a third, fourth, fifth gender.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Um, and it’s like, this beautiful spectrum that just got kind of trampled over–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –by colonization. Um…and trying to go back to those ways now is a process of relearning. Um, relearning your, your traditions and your history and your culture.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: So…

NICO: Yeah. And absolutely. And, and now and today we see, at least in Brazil, what we were talking about is, is, is that a lot of the harassment and a lot of the abuse, um, that transgender, the transgender folks go through is, is happening and originating in the home. Um, and that then, of course, continues on, you know, and they experience bullying and harassment in schools, in public areas, in, in having to to always keep your guard up, you know?

VALEN. Right. And also… the increase of, uh, trans violence–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –in the home during COVID has… it’s, it’s been so, so much. Um, because people can’t really escape that anymore.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Uh…

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Or during quarantine at least.

NICO: Yeah, because you’re like, in the same house. You’re stuck together. Um, and I mean, Brazil –we’ve had– this had its own complications when it comes to, um, COVID and quarantine and all that.

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: Um, and that comes down to the political climate. And when we look at the political climate when it comes to transgender folks, um, is that the current Brazilian constitution, um, promulgated in 1988 and established Brazil was a secular state.

VALEN: Oh, interesting.

NICO: Yeah. Which is really interesting. You know?

VALEN: It’s very interesting.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Yeah. Um, yeah that’s very interesting, that it’s a secular state. Um, because you would think that a secular state would be a little more welcoming at least–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –to, uh, trans people and queer people in general. Um… But that’s not the case, is it?

NICO: No.

BOTH: No.

NICO: Absolutely not, yeah. And so –for those who don’t know what a secular state is– a secular state guarantees religious freedom. Um, and does not adopt an official religion. It does not manifest itself in religious matters unless it’s directly involved in judicial questions. And so, this is huge because historically religion has had a huge role in, um, you know, transgender rights issues, and in, in trying to control it through the church, and control it through religion. Um, and we’re seeing here that Brazil doesn’t have that control and so they shouldn’t have the church be in effect.

VALEN: Yeah, it shouldn’t be the reason.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Yeah. Um… And like, that’s, that’s a current issue Fernanda was telling us about, uh. That Brazil has a Parliamentary Evangelical Front? Consisting of protest, uh, Protestant and Evangelical Pentecostal lawmakers in the government and legis –uh– legislature. Um…

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: And the members of the Evangelical caucus tend to hold more conservative views and have actively held hearings and commissions in hopes of barring any LGBTQ+, uh, rights. And women rights–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –as well.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Um, so like, even if it is a secular state there’s, there’s parties–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –within the secular state that are still working really hard to, um, impede the betterment of trans lives, and–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –queer lives, and–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –even women…

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Um…

NICO: Yeah. And we see, and we see this especially with one of the members of the same, uh, Evangelical caucus, um, Damares, uh, Alvez? Um, a Brazil Human Rights and Women’s Minister, right?

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: And this is what she said, this is a quote. She wanted, she started her inauguration, um, and, that… She stated that her inauguration meant a “New Era in Brazil in which girls wear pink and boys wear blue.”.

VALEN: My god.

NICO: And–

VALEN: My god.

NICO: –you’re like, the Human Rights and Women’s Minister? Like, *laughs in disbelief*…

VALEN: She’s the one –the Human Rights Minister!

NICO: Yeah!

VALEN: Please!

NICO: Yeah…

VALEN: This should not be happening! And so, if that is the case –*laughs to keep from crying*– for the Human Rights… In trans, like, the trans lives… I– I don’t know. It’s just, it’s just, it’s… This is ridiculous.

NICO: But wait–

VALEN: She has also declared–

NICO: Yeah, I was about to say!

VALEN: –that Brazil is “living through a gay dictatorship” quote–unquote. That is… her words.

NICO: *wheezes the pain away*

VALEN: Uh. That… a– and that there is quote–unquote “an ideological imposition in Brazil. Those who do not accept it are persecuted”. So, essentially she’s saying, um, that whoever does not accept queer people, gay people, trans people, will be persecuted. Which, to me…

NICO: Goes against what you were just saying!

VALEN: Yeah! Like, it seems like she is gonna persecute queer people.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: It, it’s kind of the other way around, ma’am.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: I’m sorry to break it to you–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –but, um, queer people are the ones persecuted by you.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: I don’t know what else to tell you.

NICO: That’s wild. The–

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: –the fact that she said it was a gay dictatorship, that’s, that–

VALEN: That’s just crazy.

NICO: – this is wild. Wow. And you’re the Human Rights Person.

VALEN: Even more seeing as, like, the, the current government of Brazil is everything but gay? Or queer?

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: It’s actively working against–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –LGBTQ+ rights.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: So…

NICO: Yeah, –

VALEN: That´s–

NICO: –absolutely.

VALEN: –very telling of her.

NICO: And, and when we look at, at some of the numbers that are coming out of Brazil when it comes to violence in, in, in, uh –queer and transgender violence– Brazil is the country with the highest number of transgender people killed. Um, and according to Transgender Europe, um, in 2021 a report of 70% of all murders recorded worldwide happened in South and Central America. With then 33% happening in Brazil. So…

VALEN: Terrifying.

NICO: that’s just showing– Yeah exactly. That’s the st– and that, those numbers right there, that’s, that’s why we started this podcast. That’s really why we, why we wanted to open this conversation and talk about what’s happening in Brazil. Because… those numbers are staggering. That’s like, 70% of all murders recorded worldwide –transgender murders happen worldwide– happen in South America. Right?

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: And out of all of those, 33% of those

BOTH: are in Brazil.

NICO: So a third of those murd– a third of those murders. Of 70% of those murders are happening in Brazil. That’s crazy, yo!

VALEN: That’s terrifying. And like, this is not to say that we shoul– let– that, if this wasn’t happening we wouldn’t be talking about it. It’s just…  It– it really needs to be talked about now.

NICO: Yeah. Yeah.

VALEN: Now.

NICO: It shows the immediacy of, of what’s going on in Brazil. Um, and especially looking at some of these graphs that are, that are coming out it’s, um… It’s interesting because the year of 2020, when we had, like, the height of the pandemic and all that… The numbers went up from the year before. Like, the numbers went up. So that means that they didn’t even need to go outside to be pr– doing this violence. They, they didn’t–

VALEN: This violence–

NICO: –Yeah.

VALEN: –comes from home.

NICO: Yeah. It, it didn’t start– it– it wasn’t a pandemic thing, you know? Like, the pandemic did not start or stop the violence, if anything it made it worse.

VALEN: Right.

NICO: Which, you know, in, in, in reported in 2020, 175 trans people were murdered. All of whom were tra– um, uh… were transvestites and trans women. This number is 43% higher than the average number of murders, which is 122.5 at the time. Which is crazy! Like, it’s a pandemic!

VALEN: It’s so much.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: It’s so much. And, just… It’s just disheartening seeing all these numbers. And seeing what little is being done to… lower these numbers and, like,

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: I want you as a listener to understand each of these numbers, these are not just statistics, each of these are individual lives.

NICO: People. Exactly.

VALEN: These are people–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –we’re talking about and these people have families. These people can–

NICO: Mhmm.

VALEN: –even have children. They have siblings. They have– just… Imagine the magnitude of a single person’s life in every single one of these numbers.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: It’s terrifying what’s going on.

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN: So, having gone through all of this, um, what can we do to help?

NICO: Where can we go from here?

VALEN: Where can we go from here? Um… Protect trans people as much as you can.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Learn.

NICO: Yeah. And understand what’s going on, um, in, in, in– and understand what’s going on in Brazil. Understand that political climate. Because right now Brazil… I mean, Brazil is a huge nation, right? And, and it has a lot of power in South America. And the presidential, the political climate that’s going on in Brazil, the corruption that has continued to plague Brazil, like… We see this but we don’t hear about it, we don’t research about it, we don’t learn about it. And so, continue to learn about that. And continue to research and understand what’s going on in Brazil. And then understand that even though you’re not in Brazil you can still support transgender lives here, you know?

VALEN: Yeah.

NICO: You don’t need to be in Brazil to, to support. You can do that in your own community, in your own area code, in your own zip code. Because there, there’s still a community there that is struggling, and there’s a community there that, that, you know, needs allyship in some sort of way you know?

VALEN: Right.

NICO: And, and understand that you’re also not the savior in this though. You know?

VALEN: Right. Yes.

NICO: Come in in the “How can I help?” not “This is what I think you need for help”.

VALEN: Right.

NICO: You know? And understand and listen to other people’s stories and take time out of your day, um, to listen to, uh, s– somebody else´s struggle to listen to somebody else’s story. Understand and, and really try to put yourself into somebody else’s shoes. Because that, that’s how you grow. And you start to understand the people that you live around. And you understand the world that you live in. Because that’s, that’s vital, you know?

VALEN: Yeah! And as you learn, as– and as you understand more and more, be sure to have conversations about it and to call people out when they’re doing something wrong. When they’re being transphobic. Um, reach out to, um, nonprofits. Um, we’re gonna post resources after this, uh, episode is aired so that you can, um, find easier ways to get, uh, more information and get, um, started in, in, in, um, helping out, um, with this issue. And for the trans people out there, our trans listeners, we love you so, so much.

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN: So, so much. And we hope that you can be safe. We’re also posting, um, resources for trans people to get help.

NICO: Mhmm.

VALEN: Uh, for information, for… Yeah. Anything that you might need. Um, we’re gonna try to put as much information out there as possible.

NICO: Mhmm.

VALEN: Uh, to continue this conversation and to, um, do our little part–

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: –in, in all of this.

NICO: There’s another little documentary yall can watch it’s called Bixa Traves– Travesty? Travesty? I think that’s in… I think it’s in Portuguese so I–

VALEN: It is in Portuguese.

NICO: –might be butchering it as well. Um, but you guys should definitely, you know, check it out. Take some time, I’m a big movie watcher, that’s why I always give yall documentaries to watch. I love a good movie. I learn a lot more like that, um, and so, yeah. Just check it out. Take some time. Just like… And it doesn’t even have to be “You need to read an article. You need to listen to a podcast.” Just take the time to educate yourself in the best way that you know how to educate yourself. So if that’s watching a video, watch a video. If that’s reading, read. If that’s listening to a podcast, listen to a podcast. But I think that it doesn’t matter the way that you ingest it. It matters the way that you are– you’re actually taking the time to, to, to take in the information and learn and, and, and to take that experience in. Um, and we want to appreciate you guys that have made it this far, that have listened to the whole podcast. Um, and, and really, you know, being able to listen and talk about, and hopefully continue this conversation outside of just listening to this, you know?

VALEN: Yeah. And so, that being said…

NICO: With that…

VALEN: With that…

NICO: My last time.

VALEN: Eeeep! Nico´s last sign off!

NICO: Um, yeah. Y’all have a good week. Y’all have a good, you know, rest of the semester. Have a good podcast, you know.

VALEN: Be safe.

NICO: Yeah.

VALEN: Take care of yourselves.

NICO: Absolutely.

VALEN: Nico, you take care of yourself as well.

NICO: No, absolutely! Your boy is going to be in The Big, The Big Apple.

VALEN: The Big City!

NICO: *laughs*

VALEN: So exciting!

NICO: Yeah. We´ll see–

VALEN: Grown up.

NICO: –we’ll see how that goes. But, y’all… Be easy, stay safe, échale ganas, and we’ll see you next semester.

*closing music*

[Bad Bunny Music]

Valentina: Hello! And welcome to “Sientate y Hablémos” this is El Centro’s podcast, and I am Valentina Echavarria, one of your hosts today.

Alex: My name is Alex Mejia and I’m one of the new hosts today.

Brian: Hello everyone, my name is Brian Segovia and I’ll be the second new host today.

Valentina: We have two amazing new hosts, uh on our new semester and we’re really really excited to see everybody again. Um today we’re gonna have a very very cool topic which is Bad Bunny and his impact on Latin American culture and music and um for this episode we had an amazing researcher Daniela Maldonado, she’s one of our SCS and she’s sitting in today and we’re very very excited to go into this.

Brian: Yeah totally, um so we can start talking a little bit about Bad Bunny and who he is. Um so the full name Bad Bunny is his artist’s name but his full name is Benito Antonio Martinez Ocasio he’s a Puerto Rican rapper and singer from uh Vega Baja in Puerto Rico. He was raised in a lower middle class household pretty, you know, working class average guy uh with his father and he drove trucks and his mother taught English um and he has two younger brothers actually.

Valentina: Oh I didn’t know that.

Brian: His music style is sort of a mix between Latin trap and Reggaeton, he kind of pulls from both in his music which really makes it um unique uh right now he’s become really popular.

Valentina: Yeah, I’ve heard a lot about him but I actually, um kind of don’t know anything about him I’m really bad, I know I’m a really bad Latin American person because I really don’t know anything about his music, so you guys are going to be my guides today.

Alex: Perfect.

Brian: Well, we’re more than happy to Bad Bunny is uh anytime I have the opportunity to introduce Bad Bunny to anyone I do and then immediately at least one song is gonna be like “Oh yeah I vibe with this”

Alex: Oh for sure, we all have that one song that we enjoy.

Brian: Yeah, oh yeah, you’ll have that like one song that we’re like I can go to this at any point of the day and be like yeah okay. Okay so let’s go ahead and talk a little bit about how he um rose to fame um I’ll talk about the first few years 2016 through 2017 and then uh Alex over here is going to talk about the next few years. All right so in 2016 uh Bad Bunny actually was uh working at a local supermarket in Puerto Rico, Econo, um bagging groceries um to support his studies at the University of Puerto Rico Arecibo um he began sharing his music on SoundCloud uh into the popularity of uh his music his song um and due to the popularity of his um song “Diles” he began receiving calls from producers uh which he answered while at work uh which is pretty interesting that like he was literally recording music and bagging groceries.

Valentina: Wow, this man was grinding like yeah

Brian: Um so really working-class guy you know down to earth you know like this wasn’t a person that like was born into money or anything or like was gifted opportunities, he had to go and chase his goals. Um, Bad Bunny um actually caught the attention of producer DJ Luyan uh and was signed to to “Hear this Music” and then uh Bad Bunny dropped “Soy Peor” uh which was his like first hit um in 2016 and then moving on into 2017 uh in May, Bad Bunny’s collaboration with Karol G “Ahora me Llama” reached number 10 on the Billboard Hot 100 Latin Songs it’s like the top ten, uh which is I mean like literally a year after he’s like actually begins to you know pay attention to music and write music.

Valentina: That’s awesome.

Brian: It’s remarkable that he did that. Um and was listed as a Latino favorite song of 2017.

Alex: Awesome, so transitioning into 2018, so in 2018 he was featured on Cardi B’s “I like it” uh which kind of fun fact that was probably my first song I’ve heard of Bad Bunny.

Brian: No way yeah that makes sense actually yeah.

Alex: So one of my favorite ones and then he was featured uh “MIA” which reached number five on the Billboard Hot 100 on Christmas Eve.

Valentina: Wow

Alex: Which is kind of crazy uh getting you know Drake as a feature is huge so that that really was a milestone. Uh so switching over to 2019 he released “Oasis” which along with J-Balvin, one of my favorite songs also from there, “La Cancion” is probably a really good one. Um he also joined protests against the Puerto Rican Governor Ricardo Rosario um and then in 2020 he became the first non-English language act to be in Spotify’s most streamed artist of the year with over 8 million streams, which honestly is a huge accomplishment um especially coming from years ago he was back in groceries in Puerto Rico so being one of like the best out there.

Valentina: And here rose to fame really fast like that’s nothing.

Alex: Only a few years that’s some artists take you know several several years for that to happen.

Valentina: Decades almost.

Alex: Huge. Um and then in 2021 he released a uh album that won a Grammy for the best Latin Pop album which is huge winning a Grammy in that early in your career is amazing. Um he also won a lot of other uh awards for Billboard Latin music with 10 Awards in total, which is wow. Um in 2022 he was featured in the Vogue magazine for a second time uh which Vogue if you don’t know, Vogue magazine is a pretty well known Magazine, with a bunch of artists that are very famous and he also released his new album the one that’s been on repeat for everyone for the past summer, “Un Verano Sin Ti,” which debuted on the Billboard 200 and stayed there for seven non-consecutive weeks so you’re going against like albums like Drake’s uh DJ Khaled uh and a bunch of other artists that dropped the same year and for him to be at the top that’s kind of really impressive.

Brian: It’s kind of remarkable honestly the way he rose so quickly, um but also the fact that like he’s released so much music you know a lot of people like to talk about these one hit wonders that kind of rise to fame out of nowhere but.

Valentina: And then go and fade out.

Brian: Yeah they fade out they really don’t have that next song you know that really gets people hooked.

Valentina: Yeah.

Brian: Um but Bad Bunny one of the things he does is he just puts out so much music but it’s not like every song that he puts out has a purpose and like he has a goal with that and he plays around again with that like we were talking about before, his music is not entirely reggaeton and it’s not entirely like pop it’s a mix and he does a good job of incorporating both styles of music and he’s one of the pioneers of doing that. Um and so I really like the fact that he’s been able to release so many albums that like talk about different things and he incorporates different styles of music.

Alex: Oh yeah, that’s that’s one of my favorite things like he adapts to different types of music like he did one with uh Romeo Santos that was really great.

Valentina: Oh yeah.

Alex: Um and so it’s like just the ability to adapt to different types of music styles is like amazing, like not a lot of artists can do that and so for him to do that every time is awesome and to have his own uniqueness into it as well.

Valentina: Right and most artists just like release one album every year at most normally it’s like two years and I- if I’m correct he released like how many albums like five albums in one year?

Alex: I think it was three in one year and that was that was in 2021 when he released three of them, which is crazy.

Brian: So there’s a lot of a lot of hits in those albums too like it wasn’t like junk music you know?

Alex: Yeah, that’s great, not a lot of filler music.

Brian: He collaborates with a lot of artists like and he likes to collaborate specifically with a lot of Puerto Rican artists just like it helps aid the rise of other Puerto Rican um.

Valentina: Right.

Brian: Uh reggaetoneros and um like I think of like Jhay Cortez, uh Rauw Alejandro, I mean there’s so many, like it’s it’s kind of um it’s been huge for a lot of other people’s careers too because like they can like link off of um Bad Bunny’s kind of goal with his music, so and that’s really good. Okay let’s move on to um this next topic um so we can talk a little bit about how Bad Bunny actually influences Latinx culture. Um so this is something we kind of like, we talk about what we don’t really talk about, and I think this is a nice opportunity to actually get into the deep information about uh Latinx culture and how Bad Bunny connects to that um. So first let’s talk about toxic masculinity, obviously the elephant in the room usually when you talk about Latin America right, um in most uh Latin American cultures um men are expected to embrace uh toxic masculinity, uh which is a cultural pressure for men to behave in a certain way. This is very common in music especially in reggaeton Latin trap, like you don’t really have to search too deep into the lyrics to understand that. Like it is pretty in your face.

Valentina: Yeah, it’s almost like a requirement almost.

Alex: Like early trap and reggaeton like you can you can absolutely see it and like now it’s evolving to something a little totally different with the help of Bad Bunny so like using his platform to actually change the music industry, huge.

Brian: No I completely agree and he definitely has um unlike most uh musica Urbana uh Bad Bunny demonstrates the opposite of the machismo fueled mentality uh he does this by being comfortable in embracing things that society would consider feminine such as paintings his nails, dressing in Drag and wearing dresses and skirts uh kind of like you know moving away from this Ultra masculine like machista you know style

Valentina: That’s great.

Brian: Which I think is part of his like um his whole goal right

Valentina: Yeah.

Brian: He’s influenced Latinx communities by demonstrating that men don’t have to conform to social norms that exist in Latin culture for really, generations, and I think he’s part of that movement of kind of changing the whole conversation around toxic masculinity.

Valentina: So you can really see how much he like, how aware he is of his own platform and his power of said platform so really really awesome that he’s doing all this.

Alex: Yeah and I totally appreciate him doing that, just cause most artists they don’t really use their platform for good, um just they just want to rise to fame, but Bad Bunny in his case he’s tackling many uh you know topics that range from you know toxic masculinity to other topics and and he’s doing very well in tackling each one of them and putting his own persona out there, not really hiding anything. Uh there’s one time I heard that he doesn’t change for anyone you know he stays true to himself and that’s something I really admire from him and I think that’s what makes his music stay really relevant during this time, that he doesn’t change for any artist or anything, like he he loves to be himself and to embrace himself. Um that being, you know, painting his nails or dressing in drag for like when he did it when he dressed in drag or like in different outfits for like Vogue magazine or stuff like that, like he he stayed true to himself and that’s why I really appreciate that.

Brian: So moving on, um to this next part which is talking about sexuality. Um so obviously um apart from breaking gender norms Bad Bunny has also been really vocal about his uh his sexuality um while performing he’s kissed both men and women and he’s stated that his sexuality does not define him. Um he’s open about his sexuality having like a fluidity um and once again he shows uh what sets him apart from other reggaetoneros. Uh his openness about his sexuality is significant uh for many Latino men exploring the sexuality that would have been frowned upon by their culture, you know, when we talk about like artists like Bad Bunny we’re usually talking about people who are kind of in the spotlight all the time.

Valentina: Right.

Brian: And like whatever they say has an impact.

Valentina: Yeah.

Brian: And so since like for so many generations we have like this machista very like cis view about like the way the world works really.

Valentina: Right.

Brian: Um that’s also reflected in the music and so I think that Bad Bunny has been good for that because he is working on changing that conversation and allowing people basically say like I can be different from what is whatever the social Norm is, and that definitely shows um in his views about his sexuality and it allows like it just says like I just said um Latino men to explore that.

Valentina: Right and in a type of music that is like a genre of music that is very very heteronormative most of the time like reggaeton always, like yeah that’s like the norm reggaeton so it’s really really interesting. I didn’t know that from him I actually don’t know much about him but yeah that’s really cool.

Brian: You’re learning Valentina you learn you will learn with both of us.

Alex: Oh yes we’ll educate and we’ll inform you about Bad Bunny because he is a huge topic. No, but I do enjoy um you know being able to you know witness it in real time how it’s happening. You know, when I first listened to him it was like awesome, but then like I got into his more music and his lyrics. I’m a big lyric person so like when I listen to music I listen to the lyrics um and so seeing the evolution and seeing that it’s happening right in front of us and helping generations um of people to like, express and embrace themselves and never hide behind any kind of wall and breaking those like those uh social norms, oh you can’t express yourself no that’s not the case. I feel like you should and Bad Bunny is allowing that to happen and I love that for him um so it’s huge eye-opening right now and loving it for the generation right now.
Valentina: It’s very awesome what else can you tell me about him? I want to learn more now.

Brian: So uh Bad Bunny actually has other talents uh surprisingly but uh beyond just uh music. Um, so his popularity is also um although it’s risen from his music he has also wrestled he’s a wrestler.

Valentina: He’s wrestled before??

Brian: Yeah, at the 2021 Royal Rumble he was in he was in that.

Valentina: Wait I didn’t know that.

Brian: You know, it’s funny because usually I don’t know why, this is probably an incorrect stereotype that I have, but I usually think of people who wrestle to be these big like yeah jacked people and I’m not saying Bad Bunny is like lanky or anything but like hes not all that you know. But you know showing that he can do other things as well um he has also ventured into acting I’m sure a lot of people have uh seen or heard about that um he’s been featured in many movies and TV shows now such as F9, American Soul, Bullet Train, the lost city and he’s worked alongside Brad Pitt and um Narcos in Mexico too.

Valentina: Yeah.

Alex: Yeah, when I first saw him in Narcos Mexico I was like “is that Bad Bunny”? like that can’t be him and then yeah that’s actually him yeah that’s amazing like.

Brian: Yeah, he’s still a dude he’s a talented dude he can do everything. Um so we can move on, um also to influence on social and political issues.

Alex: So so in 2019 uh Bad Bunny joined protests against Puerto Rico Governor Ricardo Rosario to resign and write a song, and he wrote a song to voice the goals and views of the movement. Um he was also involved with uh attracting protesters from the US and the movement was successful with the step down of Rosario.

Valentina: And like here it comes again like the same topic of like he knows how much power music has, and he has and because people really like people know him people love him so it’s really really cool that he’s using his platform.

Brian: Uh leading up to the 2020 election uh Bad Bunny encouraged Puerto Rican youth to register to vote. Um using his platform to share um important information um as to why voting matters uh so he’s actually lent his music to President Joe Biden as a way of endorsing him uh during the presidential campaign. Uh to motivate Puerto Rican communities in uh in Florida and in Pennsylvania um you know to you know uh purple states you know that uh usually very competitive um and a lot of people don’t realize that their vote matters in those situations, but it really really does. Um I think he really wants to encourage um people to vote and get out there um and I think that you know artists doing that is something that’s new, it’s not really something that people talk about in music um so it’s it’s interesting that he’s doing that um compared to a lot of people who don’t um uh.

Alex: So, he also was in the uh support of the Black lives movement um and so you know, in 2020 and “racism worse than Covid black men with a gun that’s a criminal, but if he’s white then they say that’s a hobby,” that’s a lyric from one of his songs.

Valentina: Wow.

Alex: Um so being able to incorporate these lyrics into these songs and you know they become mainstream, you know people listen to these and they’re like okay that’s that’s huge and you know I’m really happy that he is fighting for you know the fight against racism, because that’s that’s a huge um issue going around in America and something that should be talked about even more um and so he has done a bunch of other things uh I don’t know Brian, you’ll find anything else?

Brian: Yeah, um so actually Bad Bunny actually called attention to the murder of a transgender woman uh in Puerto Rico uh named Alexa uh when performing on Jimmy Fallon. Uh he wore a shirt that translated “they killed Alexa not a man named skirt” and I think that really like sometimes you don’t even have to say it it’s like the way that you act the way that you are and what you’re wearing, and so like that it kind of sends the message that like we need to learn to accept transgender people into the community much more and we need to stop like this rhetoric that we have that’s very um very heteronormative very cis like um it really changed the conversation about that. Um and so he he definitely has been working on that and um he comes up with creative ways like I said like, comes up with creative ways to show that and um not coming off in a way that’s like performative or anything and I think that that’s pretty important because there’s a lot of artists that do act pretty performative out there yeah and you can kind of tell when people are creative about it that they’re not being performative because they’re like generally trying to get that point across and.

Valentina: Normally creativity comes from the heart, I think, and so once you have something out there that’s creative and it’s speaking about something that you really care about it hits harder so really awesome that he’s doing all this.

Brian: Do you have anything else you would like to comment about Alex?

Alex: Um personally just overall, he just seems to be using his platform for good and I totally appreciate that and I think a lot of generations and youth are appreciating that as well. Um you know stuff going that’s happening in Puerto Rico you know things happening here in the states and in the United States um his influence on you know presidential elections and you know just allowing himself and his music to cause a ripple effect everywhere and um that’s something I feel like should be really praised and I think he’s finally getting the praise he really deserves now um so I’m I mean yeah.

Brian: You know right now after um hurricane Fiona um Bad Bunny released a music video called El Apagon and uh.

Valentina: Yeah I’ve heard about this.

Brian: Yeah yeah it’s it’s really long but the music video like basically talks about you know the hurricane and the whole context of Puerto Rican history from if I’m not wrong. Um and so you know I think the Puerto Rican like image in the US is very misconstrued a lot of people don’t even know Puerto Rico is part of the United States and like that we, right like they’re the people in Puerto Rico also U.S citizens, and um they don’t know the struggles of Puerto Rican people throughout history um and the struggles that they’ve had as Islanders and like connecting to the US.
Valentina: Right and we talked about this in a previous episode last year um about like the secret, secret history of Puerto Rico um and how many things are ignored in the U.S about their history and like most people don’t know but their flag was illegal for some time as well like there’s a ton of things that we like the US ignores about Puerto Rico.

Brian: Yeah and so I think Bad Bunny really does a good job of highlighting history and talking about it because I mean, since we’re not learning about in history books like we don’t learn about it in school here I think it’s it’s appropriate that like he uses uh music and his creativity to teach history and to talk about Puerto Rico and the people that live there. I mean there’s three million Americans that we don’t like we don’t accept as americans and we don’t give the same rights to like, those are conversations that need to be had um and I think that like that creates a movement where at least Puerto Ricans can be more vocal now about who they are and people can understand them.

Valentina: Right yeah.

Alex: I mean in the last video talking about the last podcast episode, so like the other day I was listening to it and there was a quote in there you guys said it was like the United States views Puerto Ricans as second-class Citizens, which is kind of crazy like they are you know Puerto Ricans and Puerto Rico is part of the United States but we don’t really the United States doesn’t really you know view it as like that and that’s you know unfortunate and I feel like you know having a huge artist like this blow up from Puerto Rico and showing all these like social issues that’s happening there amazing you know just huge.

Valentina: That’s right.

Brian: The next thing that I’ll mention is that San Diego State University actually now offers a class about Bad Bunny starting in 2023.

Alex: I would love to take that class.

Brian: To learn about his impact on Latin culture.

Valentina: That’s awesome.

Brian: Which just goes to show you that like people in Academia like recognizing like the movement, the snowball effect that Bad Bunny is having like, in the culture generally speaking, um just beyond like the music and I mean that’s just the beginning like if one University starts to offer classes on this like you don’t know what’s gonna happen next like.

Valentina: Right.

Brian: Um so.

Valentina: And this opens the door to so many conversations about different topics.

Alex: This could cause a ripple effect and you know they learn about more stuff that’s happening in Puerto Rico the hidden history behind that and I mean I would I would uh take the class.

Brian: Oh absolutely like I’m sure a lot of people will.

Valentina: I think you guys could dictate the class actually like.

Brian: We should take, oh my God, we have so much information now we could low-key do that..

Valentina: Exactly.

Alex: We can be professors.

Brian: Oh my God, Professor, Dr. Alex oh my God.

Alex: Dr. Brian yeah.

Valentina: and you have phds and uh Bad Bunny

Alex: in Bad Bunny

Valentina: Imagine that that’d be awesome.

Alex: Majoring?

Everyone: oh no…

Brian: Anyway, we’re getting sidetracked um yeah what else what else is there to talk about, I mean we can uh we can cut this out yeah.

Valentina: Yeah, I think we can wrap it up um we’re at 25 here and we had a little bit more so I think let’s just wrap it up.

Brian: Wonderful, okay so I think that um concludes our conversation um about uh bad Bunny’s impact um obviously you can get so much deeper into this but this just gives you know any listeners like an outlook on like um who Bad Bunny is what he’s done and what he how he’s impacted Latinx culture.

Alex: So I just want a quick question Brian what’s your favorite song from Bad Bunny if you could pick one?

Brian: Oh my God that’s so difficult um..

Alex: Or album either or..

Brian: Okay I really do like “Un Verano Sin Ti” um the song that I’ve been listening to so much right now “Tarot” is so good.

Alex: Valid answer.

Brian: And uh it is like I’m bumping that song all the time in my car but, oh my God, um “Yo Hago Lo Que Me Da La Gana” I think is my favorite album.

Alex: Okay.

Brian: Um I can’t I can’t I can’t say one song I mean like.

Alex: Okay no that’s hard.

Brian: Too many like I think like it’s every song is unique in its own way and so like I’ll listen to one song for a different purpose.

Alex: Oh so it just depends on the mood you’re in?

Brian: Yeah.

Alex: Okay.

Brian: If I’m in like you know really upbeat mood like there are certain songs that I can address that but there are other songs that are like more like chill I’m vibing on my couch kind of thing.

Alex: Okay perfect.

Valentina: That’s awesome, how about you Alex?

Alex: Okay so I love “Un Verano Sin Ti” that was probably my favorite album, um and I’m gonna say “Otro Atardecer”, I love that song.

Brian: It’s a great song actually.

Alex: I don’t know it’s just something about it just really catches my ear but but like Brian said like it depends on the mood if I’m like upbeat then you know I gotta go for his upbeat songs you know Moscow Mule was awesome all right.

Brian: I’ve been getting back into that song so at first I was probably one of my lesser like songs of the album.

Alex: Um but yeah so some Bad Bunny songs, me personally, they they at first listen I don’t really uh you know vibe with them but later on they do grow on me and that says a lot for for his music. Um but anyway uh since me and Brian answered the question of like what’s our favorite Bad Bunny song let’s switch it over to Valentina, what about you? what do you what do you consider your favorite Bad Bunny song?

Valentina:  Well as I’ve said before I don’t really I don’t think I’ve really like sat down and listened to Bad Bunny so I don’t really have a favorite song right now but I will go home and listen to Bad Bunny now because I am interested after this conversation.

Alex: Well, thank you and I hope the audience also feels the same way after this episode uh but we’re gonna start wrapping it up and I want to give a special thank you to Valentina and Brian and also to our researcher Daniela for helping us with this podcast as well so uh thank you so much and uh have a great weekend and uh stay safe.

Valentina: Echale ganas!

[Bad Bunny Music]

Valentina: Hello, and welcome to Sientate y Hablemos. This is one of your hosts, Valentina Echavarria.

Brian: Hello, everyone. My name is Brian Segovia.

Alex: Hello. My name is Alex Mejia.

Jose: And I’m Jose Torres.

Valentina: Today we have a new episode, episode number two of the semester.  And we’re gonna be talking about the World Cup, it’s coming up.

Alex: Oh, yes. We got what, a month away.

Valentina: And today’s researcher is Jose, and he has decided to join us in the conversation as well. So welcome.

Jose: Thank you. Thank you.

Valentina: Great to have you here.

Jose: Great to be here.

Valentina: All right, so now that we have introduced ourselves, I’m going to be honest, guys. I don’t know about the World Cup. I don’t know about soccer. You guys are going to teach me again today. So tell me a little bit about what are we talking about today? What is the World Cup for everybody out there? I’m not that bad, but what is the World Cup?

Brian: Well, yes, of course. Really excited to be back again for episode number two. So the World Cup. So let’s go through just kind of a little bit of the format of what the World Cup really is. So this is an event in which the national teams of each country, representing 32 nations that qualify from every continent in the world, qualify, representing the nation, and they compete in this one month long tournament that happens once every four years. And this year, it’s held in category Qatar, and it’ll officially begin on Sunday, November 20th, with the opening ceremony and the kickoff between the hosts, Qatar against Ecuador, with the tournament ending on Sunday, December 18. So, Jose, tell us a little bit about, like. The context about this World Cup and like why this World Cup is going to be a little bit different than World Cups in the past.

Jose: Yes. So normally the World Cup is held over the summer every four years, so this would take place over June and July. And the thing about this year that’s actually taking place in Qatar, which is in the Middle East, so as you know, is really hot there. Summers get really hot. And so they actually pushed it back to the winter this year so they could have a better climate, better conditions for the soccer players, just overall better experience. And so it actually begins Sunday, November 20, like you just said, but also touching about the viewership, this is the most viewed sport in the world. So last World Cup was held in Russia and they had about three and a half billion viewers. And so this year they’re actually expecting it to reach 5 billion viewers, which would be the most watched televised sports program ever.

Brian: So the World Cup, just to give some context for the history of the game, the first ever World Cup was held back in 1930, happened in Monte Uruguay. The final was Argentina against Uruguay. Uruguay won the first ever World Cup back in 1930. And that tournament, I think it had like twelve teams that played in that World Cup and now it’s grown to 32 teams. So it shows just how much the game has continued to grow over almost a 100 year history of the World Cup. And also Brazil is the one who’s won the most tournaments at five. There’s a few other countries that have claimed, that have won it. A total of eight nations have won the World Cup. So maybe this year we’ll have a new winner. We’ll maybe have that 9th national team winning the World Cup.

Alex: We are hoping. We are hoping.

Brian: So then in 2026, the World Cup is coming over to North America. It’s like a joint World Cup between the USA, Canada and Mexico. And there’s going to be 48 nations in that World Cup. So it’s continuing to grow and viewership is also going to continue to grow alongside that.

Jose: Yeah, I can’t wait for that. It’s totally going up for the totally showing up to the final for that one.

Brian: Yeah, for sure. Here in the US, no doubt. I’m going to be here.

Alex: So we kind of want to touch upon what’s happening in this World Cup. So, as you know, teams qualify months and sometimes years before the World Cup actually starts. But some key teams that are missing out on this World Cup, surprisingly, it’s going to be Italy. They recently won the Euros, but they could not qualify for the World Cup. Columbia is another team that did not qualify and they are ranked 17th in the nation (World).

Valentina: RIP. I guess I won’t be watching the World Cup anymore.

Alex: I’m sorry.

Valentina: So, sad.

Alex: You can support Mexico.

Valentina: I will.

Alex: Please.

Valentina: I will. No worries.

Alex: Sweden is another one that’s missing out on the World Cup. Peru, Chile, but one that actually, the United States. This is their first World Cup coming back after the last World Cup they missed. So that’s another big one that I’m really excited to see because we want to see if they managed to work out their flaws that didn’t allow them to come back in the World Cup last time.

Brian: Yeah, the US team definitely received a lot of hate last time for not making it to the World Cup. So, yeah, hopefully they can rebound and we’ll talk a little bit about the US in a minute to see how far can they actually go. We’ll talk about that. But yeah, Jose, you said that, like, this is going to be the most expensive World Cup ever.

Jose: The budget for this year is actually 220 billion, which is a lot compared to any other previous year. The second previous highest was Brazil in 2014, and that was actually 15 billion. And then Russia 2018 is the last World Cup held was 11.6. So if you compare it to those two, it’s about 20 times as much.

Brian: It’s a huge difference. It’s like 20 times more expensive. They poured money into this World Cup.

Alex: Which makes sense because they also got to accommodate all the travelers, all the tourists that’s going to be coming to it. A lot of countries try to enter into the drawing to become the next host of the World Cup because they see the revenue that it brings. So Qatar did spend 220 billion but they are hoping to get a little bit more extra money because they held it. They had a big, make hotels, the stadiums, pay the people who make the stadiums, but hopefully in the end, they do get a profit out of this as well.

Jose: Yes, that’s always the last hope for every nation that’s hosting the World Cup. They’re just trying to gain popularity, boost their income, just trying to get up on the stage. And I think that Qatar actually received a lot of criticism because of how much they spent. And they haven’t really been focused on their actual nation. They’ve been really just trying to pour a lot of money into this. But the thing about that I would like to touch on that is that a lot of this money is actually focused on the infrastructure as a whole. So they’re not really just focusing on the World Cup as the World Cup. They only spend about 10 billion in stadiums, which is still a lot. But that 10 billion is actually comparable to Brazil and Russia. So that isn’t horrible. But the other 210 billion supposedly been to public transportation, hotels. They really just been trying to improve their nation overall. So I think that’s something really important to touch on with that 220 billion dollar figure.

Valentina: So in general, they’re just like the residents of the city and the country are just going to just have better stuff to do this. So that’s really nice. Actually, normally what I’ve heard is just that it does the opposite. Just like everybody’s so tired of the World Cup after it happens and the infrastructure doesn’t really work anymore. So it’s good that they’re thinking about it in that way.

Alex: Yeah, and I understand where they’re coming from. I mean, there have been past World Cups where they spend so much money on these stadiums, but these stadiums after the World Cup, they become abandoned and no one maintains these stadiums anymore. So they just you know, without maintenance they’re going to fall apart. And so why spend so much money. So that’s another controversy that’s going on with the World Cups and countries pouring that much money in is that after the World Cup is done, what do you do with the stadiums? What do you use them for? People have given suggestions, maybe provide use that as housing or use it for future, like maybe if they host the Olympics or something. Because that is a huge controversy that these stadiums are not maintained and it’s just quote, unquote, a waste of money, where that money could have gone to maybe health care or something to boost their economy even more. So that’s one conflict that does arise in what citizens do kind of voice when they do host the World Cup.

Brian: Awesome. Yeah, I agree. I think with the World Cup, the biggest problem is what actually happens to all these facilities after you build them. It’s the same thing that happens with the Olympics too, which the Olympics like the hosts always spend so much money on facilities and stuff that afterwards goes to rot. And so a lot of people in those countries have to pay taxes to support the efforts to build these stadiums. And so, there is a question to be had of like how is it actually benefiting everyone that lives there that’s paying taxes for these stadiums to be built and then there’s nothing coming out of them? I do know that. For one of the stadiums in Qatar. One thing that I did read is that they are planning to use it as a stadium during the World Cup, but then they’re going to convert it into an apartment complex for students. So Qatar has been ambitious in trying to use their stuff to impact the community and actually have a use afterwards. But there’s a lot of controversy because a lot of people have asked you know like, FIFA doesn’t have the cleanest reputation and the World Cup being hosted in Qatar and previously in Russia, you can tell that there’s like some sort of political tie, some kind of fishy activity going on there. So, we’ll have to wait and see how you know this really does play out. But there is a lot of people that have been protesting this World Cup specifically because of the controversy.

Jose: Yeah, I think the housing is going to be a big problem, or hopefully not a problem, but a big issue with this World Cup because I know the population right now is reaching 3 billion (million) as a nation, however, there’s expected to be a 1.2 million attendance for this World Cup. So it’s going to be really interesting to see how they have about a third of the population just coming in just to watch for a month and leaving.

Brian: Yeah, for sure. So we’ll see. And the last thing I’ll notice about this interesting about this World Cup that I was looking at with Alex earlier is the ticket sales. So like I think they’ve almost bought like 1 million tickets, the Qatari citizens, and there’s almost 3 million people in the country. So that means that one in three people in Qatar is going to be at a World Cup match, which is insane to think about. They bought more tickets than any other country. I think like second was the US. And then Saudi Arabia was the next one. So like, it’s going to be a very like. Qatar heavy, like attendance at a lot of the games. I’m pretty sure.

Alex: And something I read about a few weeks ago is you see how some tickets, they do sell out and some resell them at a higher price than they originally are being sold at. FIFA is trying to tackle that issue because they know that that exists and they wanted to become more affordable to people in Qatar and people who genuinely want to go and view the World Cups, so they are really trying to tackle that issue by limiting or not even allowing resale on tickets. So like  you can’t resell your ticket for 500 or something extremely out of proportion and keeping it reasonable for the citizens and other people to actually enjoy the game instead of paying resale price. So that’s another thing about tickets, and I think that’s a huge thing.

Brian: Yeah, definitely. So next, let’s start talking about this World Cup, all right? Because we’re a month away now, it’s right on our doorstep. So let’s talk about what this World Cup is going to look like in terms of the nations that are going to be participating, some of the players, and then give an idea for the format. So the World Cup basically is set into you have 32 teams that are divided into eight groups. And of these eight groups, every team in the groups plays every team in their group once. So a team will play three games in their group. It’s called the group stage. And the top two teams out of those groups will then advance to a knockout stage, where it’s single elimination and starts with the roundest 16, then quarter finals, semifinals, and then the final. And in the group stage, a win against an opponent is three points, a draw is one point, and a loss, you get zero points. And based off of the point totals, you calculate the top two teams in each group. I’m. And so let’s go into the group stage. Let’s name the team. So in Group A, you have the host, Qatar, at the top of that group, and then Ecuador, Senegal and the Netherlands. In Group B. There’s England, Iran and the USA. Who’s back in the World Cup. Wales Group C. Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Poland. In Group D, France, Australia, Denmark and Tunisia. In group E Spain, Costa Rica, Germany, Japan. Group F, Belgium, Canada, Morocco, Croatia. Group G Brazil, Serbia, Switzerland and Cameroon. And finally, Group H. Portugal, Ghana, Uruguay and Korea republic. So let’s start off by just saying, who do you guys think is the most difficult? What is the group of death from these groups? What is probably the most difficult group to advance out of all of them?

Alex: Me, personally, I think the group to get out of, if you’re a Mexico fan, Group C. And I think in general, I think Group C has quality players. Argentina is one of the top contenders to win the World Cup. Mexico always puts a fight. And in Poland, they have one amazing striker in that team that has a great mentality. So, I think Group C, if you’re a Mexico fan, so hopefully a lot of viewers is going to be a hard group to get out of. So that’s my pick.

Jose: yes. So for me, I would say Group B is really strong in the group, too. England, right now, they have amazing players, they have amazing squad. You know, the chemistry is really good and they’ve been doing really good. So I think for sure they’d be the one of the top contenders in the Group B to win it. And then after that, USA, Wales, and Iran, which all have been doing, they’ve been doing their part. And they have amazing players, all of them. USA has a lot of young rising stars. Wales has a lot of young players too, and Iran, you know, they’re not really talked about a lot, but they’ve been up and coming and I think they have a really strong, solid team this year. So group B might be one of the hardest ones.

Brian: Yeah, definitely. I think for me, when I look across all these groups, the one that stands out the most to me is Group H, just because there’s so much star power, like across the board. Like me, Portugal mean, what else you have to say? You got Christian Ronaldo and you got probably one of the most solid European teams there, Ghana, who is consistently probably the best team from Africa, like, throughout history in the World Cup. They are always really hard to play against and they have really pacy, strong players and Uruguay, They won the first ever world cup. Who says they can’t do it again? They’ve got an upcoming squad with a lot of really good players from clubs all over Europe and then Korea Republic. You may not think about South Koreans as being a place where soccer is growing, but Korea has a lot of young players coming up and Hueng-Min Son is one player that comes to mind for Tottenham Hotspur in the UK who’s a superstar. He’s a phenomenal player. And I think you can kind of see that that group is very even and any group can get out or any team can get out of that group, but it’s a very tough group to predict. Absolutely.

Alex: And we all know that going into these matches is the mentality that each one of these players are going to hold. You are playing for your national team where you’re from, and, you know, some people are unfortunate enough not to be able to participate. I kind of want to go through some people who are not going to be participating into the World Cup, some hurt players. So you got, you know, a player from Argentina, Paulo Dybala, one of the fantastic players that he will be missing. Mexico has Tecatito Corona. That’s a huge loss for us as well. When I heard that news, I was very upset and we were like, well, there goes there goes a good amount.

Jose: Yeah, so I want to touch on that. He actually has a fractured fibula, which happened over the summer. And that’s one of the main reasons they wanted to see him back in action and they were checking up on him recently. And last time that we had a report on him was actually the second week of October and so far, they said he has had a fast recovery, but they still don’t think he’s going to make any time. However, the coach for the Mexico Soccer team, he said that he would wait until the last minute, which is November 16, when they actually have to announce the team. And so he said he’s waiting till the last second and if Tecatito Corona can make it, he’s going to put him on the list. But if not, they’re going to have to find a replacement.

Alex: And that shows the importance of how fast these players want to recover for the World Cup. Again, this could be his last or many of these players last World Cup because it only happens every four times. And for that, some people get to experience the World Cup maybe two or three times before their career is over. And so fast recovery is on top of their mind. They want to avoid injuries. They want to get back on the pitch as soon as possible because they don’t want to afford to miss possibly their last World Cup, especially playing for your national team and putting it all you got and achieving one of the biggest, probably the biggest achievement in soccer. And so you can see the importance of fast recovery and why even on the last day, they’ll check if he’s fit to come on, because it’s important.

Brian: One of the biggest controversies with this World Cup is the fact that it’s in the middle of the season. A lot of these players are currently still playing games, where if the World Cup is during the summer, they have about a month and a half to rest at the end of their season before the start of the World Cup. So now that games are still playing and. Important games are being played at the club level. A lot of these players are having to choose, oh, shoot, like, do I give my all at the club level because I can’t get injured for the World Cup? Like, it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity for a lot of these players. It’s something that they might have one chance in their career to ever play in. And so, yeah, there is a lot of controversy around that. And there have been a few players have gotten into injured in club play in the last few weeks because this is about time now. As the season has advanced, your body breaks down and so players are trying to take care of themselves.

Jose: Yeah, I think FIFA has recognized that and actually increased the squad from 23 to 26 players this year to give them a little more freedom, bring extra subs in, bring extra people that they can replace. While anything can happen, really, there’s a lot of injuries that can happen, especially because of the middle of the season. People are just more worn out. So I think the three extra players can make a big difference if they choose them, right?

Alex: Absolutely. So I kind of want to transition over to who is potentially supposed to make the final who’s most likely to. Make the final favorites. I know Brian is pretty biased towards Argentina for a good reason.

Brian: Oh, for sure, for a good reason. We know that they have a solid squad.

Brian: Solid squad. Amazing Squad.

Alex: But we do know why he has we all know who plays Argentina, Leo Messi. And I’m going to let Brian talk a little bit more about that because that’s his player and his team.

Brian: So you’re letting me talk. Alex, that’s dangerous that’s a dangerous game you’re playing right there. So, yeah, I feel really confident about this Argentina team coming in. I think the last decade or so they’ve been pretty shaky. Had to go through a lot of managers and lost a lot of finals. But Messi, two years ago during the summer, finally winning Copa America, winning the South American Championship, kind of getting that monkey off his back and taking that next step and winning a trophy with this country. And so now I’ve seen that Messi looks so much more relaxed playing for the Argentina national team. And Argentina has a bunch of solid players in their core and they’re still bringing back some of their players who have work up experience, like Angel Di Maria and others and Otamendi. So they have a solid squad mix of young players and older players with experience. And I think Messi is kind of in the middle of all of that action. And I think this is a very solid chance for Argentina to make a deep run. But yeah, I mean, shoot, if Argentina brings it home, I’m going to be celebrating for a while, of course.

Brian: But we can’t talk about Messi only. We can switch over to Portugal. Portugal has Cristiano Ronaldo. And honestly, you have Messi and Cristiano. Two best players in the world will save the argument for another day. But I think since they know that this is their final World Cup, this is their last one to achieve the best achievement in football in anything. So they’re going into this World Cup with the mindset of we need to win this. And so I feel like that mindset is going to drive a ton of momentum into each of their teams. They’re leaders and them going into this World Cup, they’re going to motivate and lead this team to making it pretty far. And so I believe that Argentina and Portugal have that one player and that one player is going to motivate them to make it pretty deep into it. My personal person who I think is going to win the World Cup, I go with Brazil. I think Brazil is going to take it this year due to their amazing squad. They have such young players. Vinicius Jr. Rodrigo, Fermino. You have some solid players, young, but also you have other players who are experienced as well. And they are. The, you know, predictions have said that they are most likely going to win this world cup. I don’t know if anyone disagrees with me here.

Brian: Hey, look, Brazil is a five-time champion. You can’t go wrong with the, you know, strongest team historically all time, but it’s our biggest rival. Like, we can’t let them win anyone, but them.
Valentina: But then I’m going to say as a person who has never really taken any interest in the world cup up other than to see Shaqira singing, I would go with Brazil. But that’s just because I’m sorry, Brian. Thank you. He’s looking away. That’s just because I hear so much about Brazil. Everybody likes hearing Brazil. So that’s who I’m going for. I’m sorry, Brian. It’s just the only thing I know. It’s the only thing I know.

Alex: See, I know Brazil has the most likely chance to win, but the one I really want to win is Mexico. We all do. But to be realistic, we have that curse. What’s that curse around the 16? We can’t make it past that. It’s the curse. And you know what the curse of the

Brian: Curse of the fifth game, right?

Alex: Yeah, the curse of the fifth game. And what happened, like, what, two world cups ago? No fue penal. No. So, like, you know, we that curse still lays on and we’re hoping to break that Curse is here and hopefully make it far winning it. Maybe not, but that’s my hope one day. I hope Mexico wins.

Brian: But when was th e last time? I think it’s like Mexico in the last six world cups has gotten out of the group to the round of 16. They’ve lost six straight times or something. Five or six. I think it’s been five times.

Jose: But also with Mexico, they really just they have the surprises. I would say last year with Germany first game off the bat, no one really expected that. No one thought everybody thought Germany easy win and easy group win. It was a hard group, but. They really know where they expected that. And also especially because Mexico, every time before the World Cups, they never really do that good qualifying. Some years they do good, some years they do horrible. I remember Brazil, they barely qualified. It was tough. I’m pretty sure it was things to the US. That they qualified. And so they showed up to the World Cup, Brazil, and they showed out. They did good. So I think that might be a good thing to tell. Mexico hasn’t been doing that good right now, but they do have a lot of young players, a lot of good and strong players. So we’ll see. I’m really excited to see how it turns out. Hopefully hoping for the best, but we’ll see how it happens.

Alex: Who’s your pick to win the whole World Cup?

Jose: So, principally, I would also go with Brazil. No, that’s just the team. But a player, they haven’t touched about his name or he stated before, he wants this to be his last World Cup. I feel like he still has one more in him, but he’s been talking about it being his last World Cup. So I think that he’s having to show out the same as Messi, the same as Ronaldo. I think it’s going to be really important for him, especially this World Cup compared to any other, and what the team he has. And I think they’re going to really have a good chance.

Brian: When the main characters and movies really like, right off into the sunset and the end of the movie happens. It’s kind of like that for Ronaldo, Messi, for Neymar, for the three of them, it’s like they want to be able to win the World Cups, like that last achievement that they can do, and then kind of retire from the national team afterwards and everyone won’t doubt them anymore. Those three players are incredible. Despite not having won the World Cup. They don’t need to go and win the World Cup to prove anything. But as fans, we want to see those players win the World Cup and lift the biggest trophy of the mall. So it’s going to be fun to watch. I think that. What’s interesting about this World Cup, it’s a pretty level playing field. Like, I think Brazil are like, the favorites, I think, in the, in the betting. But, you know, France won the World Cup last year. I mean, like, France can literally field three different teams and still probably have a good shot of winning the World Cup. That’s how talented they are. And the same goes for, you know, England, who made it to the semifinals in Russia, like, shocked everyone by doing that and then made the Euros the Euro final last year. And so they have a ton of talent, like, on all phases of the game, and then you can never discount, sorry, Spain and Germany, other European giants that have won the World Cup of the past. So, literally, any team could come in and win this World Cup. But what do you think, are some of, like, the underdogs or like, who do you think is the dark horse that could surprise and make a deeper run, get to the quarter final semifinal or something like that, and prove people wrong?

Alex: Me personally, I’m going to say Uruguay. I think, Uruguay, they’re making it out that stage for sure. And I think, honestly, the two players I think are going to show up is going to be Darwin Nunez. He’s been playing really well for Liverpool, but mostly I’m sorry, I may be biased a little bit, but Valverde he plays for Real Madrid as the midfield or as a winger. And he has the mentality and the speed and the experience because he plays for Madrid. And I think he will be able to carry with the help of his teammates around him. You got Luis Suarez as a striker. You have Cavani as well in there. Experienced players, I think they can push this group, this this team past the group stage, passed around the 16 and maybe into the knockout stages, you know?

Brian: Yeah, I really like Guru as well. I think UWAI, like just across the board is, is a nation that always does well in World Cups. Like they always make it pretty far. It’s crazy to think of it because Udai is a country of like 3 million people and they have like, consistently been like a World Cup threat ever since they won the first one back in 1930. They’ve always like hung around. But yeah, I think they are a dark horse for sure. I think Senegal is another one that I kind want to talk about. No African team has ever made it to the semifinals of the World Cup for this. They’ve ever gone as a quarterfinal. I think Senegal is Africa’s best bet to make the semifinals. They won the Africa Cup of nations in 2021. They’ve got tons of players who play in Europe right now. They can play against any of these top teams and and have a shot, a shot at winning. So I, I would look out for Senegal to to make some upsets. Especially in that they’re in that group with the Netherlands right there.

Jose: Yeah. They’re with Netherlands. Qatar in Ecuador.

Brian: Yeah, I definitely see Senegal. All three of those games against Netherlands, Ecuador and Qatar are winnable games. They can win those games. So who says Senegal can’t come out of that group or finish top of that group? So I would look out for them.

Jose: Yeah, so personally, for me, another one would be Canada. Want the goodwood team to watch out for. They have a lot of rising stars, too. They have a lot of Jonathan Davies He plays for Lion in league one. He has eleven matches, nine goals, two assists, which is just incredible for a young player rising right now. They have Alfonso Davies plays in Bayern Munich. And so they were first placed in the Concacaf, World Cup qualifying against USA , Mexico, against these teams, that usually the top ones. And so they made it out. And so last time they actually played in the World Cup was in 1986. So it’s a lot of pressure. A lot of people are depending on them to show out this World Cup do good and hopefully put Canda on the map again for soccer.

Brian: Canada was a surprise, I think, to a lot of people. They finished topping, Concacaf and qualifying North America. Yeah, Canada is a big surprise. And it’s good to see the game growing in a lot of these other countries that a lot of people wouldn’t think of as soccer countries. And Canada just have a few young, talented players that are coming up through the ranks. So good to look out there. I think this is going to be a fun World Cup to watch, to see who’s going to step up. Like, who’s the next young star that’s going to step up. I think last time it was in Mbappé, Mbappé was 19 at the time, still having to prove himself. I think he’d just gone to PSG. He was just about to go to PSG and still hadn’t proved himself, and he stepped up and won that World Cup. And so I wonder who that young player that’s going to come up? James Rodriguez in 2014. Remember that run? So it’s always fun to see who’s the next star that’s going to come on the horizon.

Alex: Absolutely. Well, transition to the dark horse. Maybe we transition to biggest upset. Who do you guys have as the biggest upset that you think would have made it far, but they’re not going to make it for it?

Brian: I’ll go first. I think Belgium. Belgium we’ve talked about the golden generation with Belgium for the last few World Cups. They put together a squad that’s just ridiculous across the board. And I think that now that team is aging a little bit. Belgium is aging. They still have Kevin de Bruyne, who’s probably the best central attacking midfielder in the game, but beyond him, there’s a lot of weak links. There’s a lot of question marks, especially, like, a lot of questions when it comes to chemistry and coaching that is struggling coming into this World Cup.

Brain: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Sientate y Hablemos with El Centro for February. My name is Brian Segovia.

Alex: My name is Alex Mejia.

Manny: My name is Manny Sanchez.

Alanis: My name is Alanis Camacho,

Brain: and we are all student coordinators at El Centro, bringing you another month of Sientate y Hablemos podcast, where we talk about many different topics impacting our local Latino community and around the world. So this month, we’re celebrating Afro Latinidad and Latin music. So, Manny, if you want to kick it off, go ahead.

Manny: Yes, of course. So today we’re going to go over the topic of Afro Latinidad and Latin music. And as Black History Month is coming to an end, we wanted to celebrate and honor Afro Latinos who have influenced the music world. We’re going through several different genres, what we think about those genres, what we think about just general topics and how music has power and how it can influence many actions throughout culture.  So, yeah, I wanted to kick off this podcast and ask, when you think of Afro Latinos in music, what do you think of?

Brain: Yeah, when I think of Afro Latinos and music, I don’t know. I definitely think there is a lot of influence in African beats in Latino music, so it’s usually what I think of immediately. I also think of reggae and the influence of Caribbean reggae, black communities around music. My family, being from Argentina and Uruguay, there’s a big black community in Uruguay, and they have their own style of music that they produce with drums, and there’s just like this infectious beat that I think of when I think of Black music and Latino music, that’s the first thing that comes to my mind.

Alex: Going off, that I like the influence that it has on different genres of music and land culture. That be salsa, that bachata. We have some famous artists that also played a part into that. But I really like that it goes back generations and generations of how that music has influence each other, which, in my opinion, is pretty interesting because combining two unique styles of music to make something new is pretty unique.

Brain: Yeah. Awesome. Alanis, what do you think?

Alanis: I guess the first thing that comes to mind the first thing that comes to mind is kind of that intersectionality between being that black or African side of you and that Latinidad, which I feel like sometimes it’s a bit confusing in our culture and, like, Latin Latino culture. So I like that it’s just like a good opportunity to kind of remember where a lot of our culture comes from. I don’t know, at least from me being Puerto Rican. I know that I’m a mix of African, Spanish and indigenous communities. So yeah, when I think of Afro Latinidad in Latin music, I kind of like to remember that part of my history.

Manny: Okay. Yeah, of course. When I think about Afro Latinidad and Latin music is just having that energy that I think no other music has. I feel like having that energy in that music, the brass, the percussion, the power to have people dancing, to build a community. That’s what I think about when I think about that type of music. And it’s always interesting to. Look at the origins, look at the history, where things came from, because that’s what’s going on now. The music you’re getting now, the Reggaeton, the bachata, the salsa, it started somewhere. So going over that is something I feel like everybody needs to understand to see where our culture is today. And so, transition from that, I wanted to highlight three genres that are very popular and land culture. And those three genres are reggaeton, bachata and salsa. Reggaeton. What biggest latin genre right now?

Manny: What do you think? For sure.

Alanis: No, definitely. And it’s good to remember kind of where it came from. Right? So reggaeton and I guess we’ll get into about salsa later. But how those were censored as well, but how Reggaeton kind of came from this underground place. I guess we could have that argument of where it came from. It’s an influence of a lot of different countries in the Caribbean and Panama, but either way, it was not viewed as something good. It was used to criticize governments and all the good stuff. So the fact that it’s so worldwide now is kind of amazing.

Alex: Yeah, I mean, the influence of music on either be just joyful dancing or it can also influence in politics. You can see the importance in each aspect in the community, in the country, be it was underground in Puerto Rico and is a hip hop in the United States.  So you can see that in different countries like that. You can see that the different influences in that too. So you want to go on?

Manny: Um, and, yeah, I like the point that you mentioned of how Alanis how you mentioned that it was kind of criminalized. I noticed that similarity in each of these genres. One thing I didn’t know about Bachata is that the government of the Dominican Republic, they had a general who went against Bachata. And because it was that type of music that was played in the bars, and they focused more on meringue, and they thought that was, like, their biggest genre, and they should focus on that instead. And so for decades, Bachata was seen as not important. And so knowing that about these genres and how these genres come from Afro Latinx people, hip hop has come from Afro Latinx people, but continues to be criminalized in this day and age. So it’s important to highlight how these artists in the beginning had such a difficult time bringing these genres up and celebrating that today is also key.

Brain: Yeah, I think it’s really interesting, honestly, specifically around Bachata, and especially related to the Dominican Republic being a country that has been kind of the crossroads of a lot of different cultures in the Caribbean. And looking a little bit at the history, the Dominican Republic was led by a dictator named Trujillo. During the time when Bachata was born, he embraced and put meringue on a pedestal, but he hated Bachata. Not only did he find it personally offensive, claiming it was a lower art. He actually banned both the music and the dance completely. Therefore, during his reign, Bachata was only enjoyed in brothels.
And obviously this didn’t help his credibility and it kept it from evolving as other dance styles in the Dominican did during that time. But even though the Trujillo reign ended, bachata was still looked down upon by the society. But Bachata and the music kind of like identifies with revolution, with rebellion and fighting for people’s rights, in the sense that through Trujillo, is one of the most intense dictators in Central American history. And Bachata is kind of a counteract to that. And Bachata music has experienced the same ups and downs that the dance has since the 1960s. It has had a fight for survival just as the dance has. Aside from the fact that Trujillo was not a fan of Bachata, the Dominican Republic was in love with salsa and meringue music and its birth as well. The love combined with Trujillo’s hate led to a dead end street for Bachata music and dance. For many years, however, this guitar based music has indeed survived and continues to grow and thrive in popularity all over the world. So there’s a lot of I think one of the things that’s interesting about Afro influence in dance and music is a lot of times people, minorities can’t express themselves vocally, and so they have to find ulterior ways of being able to express themselves. And so they do it via music and dance. And especially as a person that I did research a little bit into minority representation last year, I realized that music is like the biggest way that you can go back into the past and kind of found artifacts of. These minority voices that weren’t listened to, and it’s still influencing what we love today.

Alanis: So that’s pretty cool. And kind of the fact that I feel like I can still see that present day, that stigma around Bachata. I don’t know. Growing up in Puerto Rico, my family didn’t listen to a lot of Bachata. It was just kind of like now that I’m thinking about, kind of reading about the story or the history of Bachata, similar to Reggaeton like so such like a dirty thing. It might have been something that I could have internalized too. And like a lot of people and at least where I’m from, internalize as well. And you never realize where this kind of originates from. And it’s usually racism. And it’s just so interesting how so many things in life go back to that.

Alex: I feel like learning the history and everything, but mostly music, where it came from and where it originated from is important and we should never overlook that in that aspect. So when we go through each category, we want to view the history behind it. We want to see where it came up and the struggles and the up and downs. Because to this point in our society, we express these ways of dancing to express ourselves, express the music, express our personality. So now that we went to the history, maybe a little bit more up to date history on Bachata. So in 1992, Juan Luis Guerra solidified bachata’s place in the music industry when he was awarded a Grammy for Bachata Rosa. Later, Aventura stayed on top of the food chain in Latino markets globally with their single Obsession, which is another Bachata Two. And most hopefully everyone has heard that song. Great song. If you haven’t really go check it out.
There are many other Nobel artists that do bachata. There’s a bunch of them that we play in Central as well that we haven’t listened here. But go listen to it because bachata, in my opinion, is is my favorites Genre of music, the dance moves. It’s a simple four step, but you can honestly bring all your type of style into it. So that’s why I like bachata in general, because you bring your personality to it.

Brain: Manny, do you want to talk about salsa?

Manny: Yeah. So, salsa is very popular, especially here in the states. It was based on afro cuban music but incorporated elements of other latin american styles. It developed largely in new york city beginning in the 1940s and the 50s. Though it was not labeled salsa until the 1960s, it peaked in popularity in the 1970s in conjunction with the spread of hispanic culture identity. The term salsa also refers to a dance that is associated with the music. And I believe I mean, salsa is, like, the hardest dance that I can dance. It’s so hard dancing, salsa. So the roots of salsa, salsa, and spanish is sauce. English is sauce. That’s a good and so, combining elements of the spanish guitar playing tradition with the rhythmic complexity and call and response vocal tradition of African musical sources, the song originated in rural eastern Cuba and spread to havana in the first decades of the 20th century. And so when you think about salsa music well, what I think about is just the dance piece. When you play, like, at any event, any party, it’s something that you may not know how to dance it, but it gets your body moving.

Alanis: And not even just the dancing, but with the lyrics. They even talk about the African experience in countries like Colombia and Puerto rico and Cuba, whatever. Um. What’s this song that I’m trying to think of, like, oh, my God. Is it it’s not carnaval. It’s so it made me think of this song called Rebellion. The jovaroyo Colombian artist, he’s literally talking about how this African man, he was a slave. He was crying because they were going to beat his African like his wife. They were both slaves at the time. And it’s a song where you can dance it at parties, but if you listen to the lyrics, it says so much about our history as Latinos and that aspect of Afro Latinidad and how they’re literally retelling Colombian story through music. And it’s probably not the only song that talks about slavery in that sense. So definitely check that song out. Very sad, but very entertaining. Entertaining, yeah.

Alex: That goes to a bunch of music, like music even now. Name some artists right now, like bad Bunny, you think of these songs and you read the lyrics.

Alanis: If you think about Juan Ligera and like, I don’t know, I thought Niagara Biscuita, like the first one, he’s literally talking about lack of resources in a hospital and how he’s about to die and how trying to survive whatever he’s going through is like trying to cross the Niagara Falls with a bicycle. They’re always criticizing something in these songs. And it’s so very interesting to listen.

Alex: To always have a deeper meaning. You listen to these songs and you dance to it, but you never know what you’re dancing to. And I feel like learning to know what you’re dancing to and why they’re making this type of music. Yeah, to get to people dance and everything. But if you really deep down and look at the lyrics and they’re telling a story, and it’s a way to be able to bring emphasis to what’s happening in the society. So I think it’s important for the audience and the listeners to actually know what they’re dancing to, listen to the lyrics and understand the story that they’re bringing. To the table.

Manny: Yeah, of course. Very good point. And that context that you’re getting from that music is what really moves people, how they said their stories from the past, in my opinion. I want to kind of see that more often in this generation. What do you all think? Like, how do you think Land music is evolving?

Brain: Wow. I’ll go first. I think that what’s interesting about what’s happening right now is it’s influencing other markets of music. So it’s not just Latino music for Latino people, it’s for everyone now. I feel like people are starting to recognize that more and more beyond just like Reggaeton. And I think that the influence of even featuring Hispanic artists in English speaking music is just like a foot in the door, especially into recording labels that are record labels that are bigger and more well known in the US. But also abroad in other countries. And I think that what’s also interesting is just the way that it’s influencing different genres. You get it in hip hop, you get it in rock, pop, in any other genre, indie even. You really get that influence now, especially recently. And I think that that’s only going to continue to grow as people start to realize that a lot of the beats that they kind of appropriated were actually from Afro Latinos and from our community. And so now that is being seen more often.

Alex: So I think, like Brian said, most of these beats, most of these. You know, songs that they make, they’re based from generations that have passed, and not just in reggaeton, but like in hip hop and rap. Most artists are leaning towards more, using their music like a stage, as a stage to portray what’s going on in the US. And that’s where hip hop’s mostly hit it. Some artists make it for Top Ten charts. Billboard 100s, that’s what they try to shoot for. But some don’t shoot for that. Some actually really put the time and focus into putting meaningful lyrics in their music. One notable I would say would probably be that’s a hip hop would be Kendrick. He does that well. And Reggeton. I mean, you got bad bunny again. I bring about Bunny because he is one of the main ones that has been pushing that a lot in this generation. You can’t go anywhere. He literally opened up. He opened the Grammy ceremony. He was there, and he did his. Songs there with African culture, too. Exactly. And so having a Latino artist open up at the Grammys is huge because you don’t see that much. And that he also won a Grammy that year, too. So you can see the importance that is being influenced here in the United States as well, and around the world, because his music has been on top charts for months now.

Brain: Any other opinions?

Alanis: I guess I wanted to mention how more modern day artists I’m thinking about Bunny, mike Towers and Raw, even Raw Alejandro, how they’re bringing back with their reggaeton singles. They’ll sample like a salsa song, and they’re even teaching our generation kind of like those iconic salsa or meringue, anything that the sample is. Um. It just it’s so interesting, like, how they bring the sample in and you remember that you look it up in Spotify and you’re like, okay. And then you start listening to the salsa song. And it has worked. At least people that I know have started listening to more Salsa or Bachata because of that. So I think it’s pretty cool what modern day artists are doing to kind of keep that part of our culture and music alive.

Manny: It’s pretty cool. No? Yeah, definitely. I just find that I wanted to ask that question because as a DJ, it’s always interesting to see what people like during this age. And so what I notice in today’s generation is that we’re going more into the trendy. I want to say, like, not what do I want to say? Like, more trap style beats and more house type beats, high hats, more electronics in there, less of the traditional drums and things like that. I’m noticing that it’s not a bad thing, but I’m just noticing how it’s evolving away from the traditional. Oh, you go into the studio and you just bring instruments. Now it’s just like, oh, I download it electronically and then just put it in there, and it’s really real. What I’m trying to get at is that I do want to see more variety in our Latin music. It I do want to see there’s our Reggaeton artists, there’s Dembow artists now. I do want to see more popular Bachata artists now, more popular salsa, cumbia artists, because I don’t want to have that. Those genres of music be left behind. Yeah, sampling is cool. Sampling is great. I love sampling. Once I hear a sample in a song, and it’s that song that I used to listen to, oh, my God, I get so excited. But I do want to bring those genres back. I don’t want them to die. I don’t want them to die. So, yeah, that’s where I’m getting at with that. So that goes into my question. Seeing how music is evolving, how can we celebrate Afro Latinidad and the current music today? Using the current music today, I say. Bring in more artists that identify as that. Bring them more. Let them express themselves. Let them come in and use their ideas. Don’t let music labels to manipulate their original ideas.

Alex: I feel like bringing in what they have and their personality into will trickle into the music industry, and other artists will be comfortable to come out and say, hey, I want to bring my music as well and not be scared like, oh, this music was going to change my music up and change my ideas up. Like, no, this is my originality. I’m bringing my originality to the table, and I don’t want to be changed up. And so I feel like giving the opportunity to people like that is huge because, one, you don’t lose the originality of the personality that they put into that music, that it be drums or whatever they want to use. Because we see a lot now that a lot of artists, they have their ideas, but the music level is like, no, we don’t want that because that’s not going to make sales. Well, we don’t care about that. We want to put our music out, and if we love it, we love it.
And we shouldn’t have restrictions on these artists.

Alanis: That’s why I want so valid, too, because it usually only takes, like, one artist to break the ice for it to be like, oh, okay, so I can make a meringue song, aka like, Bad Bunny with la Playa when has a trap artist, reggaeton artist. Been able to do a meringue song and actually have it go viral. That’s never been done before, but it just takes one artist to do it, break the ice. And then other artists start getting inspired, like they want to showcase other sides of their culture that isn’t just like reggaeton or like so no, I definitely I agree with that,

Brian: Yeah. I think a lot of it has to do with, at least for us, playing that music, playing the old music and music that maybe you didn’t listen to as a child, but your parents did and you wanted them to change. But it’s just kind of connecting to your roots a little bit and connecting to what has influenced everything we see today. And playing that music, introducing that music to other people, because when you spread it, then that’s when it becomes popular, that’s when people start seeing the value in it. I think that’s the first step. But I think artists are only going to continue to bring back that influence. The music is not going to go away. It’s not going to go any way anytime soon, so I’m not worried about that, for sure.

Alanis: Also, if you want to celebrate after Latinidad, you should stop by CREDE and or El Centro have events. We also do that sometimes.

Alex: Yes. And we play that type of music, too.

Alanis: We do. We have playlists.

Brian: great playlists, by the way, from our great friend, Samantha Texada.

Brian: She’s great. All right, everyone, thank you for joining us for this podcast. Once again for February. I hope you enjoyed learning about Afro Latinidad music and enjoyed hearing us speak. Please stop by el Centro. We’re here Monday through Friday from 09:00 a.m. To 05:00 p.m., 07:00 p.m., 07:00 p.m. And yeah, stop by, listen to our music, hang out with us. Anyway, I hope you have a great rest of your day.